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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: First Time Set-Up Grievance rss

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PJ Martin
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I have a minor complaint about the "first time set-up." With the Hero line-up of Cyclops, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Spider-Man and Wolverine, there is only one card that can defeat Venom (who is part of the suggested Villain groups): Spider-Man's top card.

Edit: Venom can only be defeated by a Covert Hero, and the only one (in this set-up) is Spider-Man's top tier card, with one copy.

To Mr. Low: Was this an intentional decision, or "the lesser of x evils," when deciding a first-timer arrangement?
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Darrell Goodridge
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What is the text on Venom? Probably something like "can only be defeated by [Spider-Friends] character"? I would think that as long as any spider-man with fight value was involved you could use any combination. Assuming he's worded like the Blob anyway.
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Jarrod Babel
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it can only be defeated by a covert hero. I would guess that's an oversight but since there are only 2 copies it shouldn't be a game breaker. It was probably because overall the spider-foes are pretty weak with good bonuses (+2 card for doc-ock, yeah!)
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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Can only be defeated by a Covert hero. He's right, the only one in that lineup is the rare Spiderman card.

I think it's fine though. Venom being hard to capture, and that he often can only be caught by Spiderman, and even then only if Spiderman works really hard at it, is canon. Plus, Venom escaping is not even that devastating, so it's not like that's a really unbalanced outcome.
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PJ Martin
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
Can only be defeated by a Covert hero. He's right, the only one in that lineup is the rare Spiderman card.

I think it's fine though. Venom being hard to capture, and that he often can only be caught by Spiderman, and even then only if Spiderman works really hard at it, is canon. Plus, Venom escaping is not even that devastating, so it's not like that's a really unbalanced outcome.


It was rather demoralizing when we had a pair of Venoms, with by-standers, chilling in the city because the one Covert Spider-Man card hadn't even hit the HQ. We were in a weird limbo of being able to clear out other Villains, but not quite enough to hit Red Skull.
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Devin Low
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Hi PJ,

Thanks for the question. Venom and Blob are intentionally very hard to take down for some assortments of Heroes and easy for other assortments. Having Venom tough to take down in the First Game Setup helps show right off the bat that Venom can be quite a slithery Villain to pin down. In short, Venom being sometimes quite tough to defeat is on purpose! zombie

That said, Venom wasn't added to the First Time Setup specifically for that reason. Instead, the foremost purpose of the First Time Setup is to give new players a fun, fast, flavorful way to learn the game. To that end, there are three goals for the First Time Setup:

1) Tend towards the lower-complexity abilities.
2) Use a low difficulty level for the first game so that players can start easily and increase the difficulty over time. (With tougher Masterminds, Schemes, and the rulebook's Challenge Modes)
3) Use some of the most recognizable Heroes and Villains.

As a result, the Spider-Foes are in the First Time Setup because their abilities are fairly straightforward and because they include some well-known, classic Marvel Villains like Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Venom, and The Lizard.

Cheers,

Devin Low meeple
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Daniel Corban
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Venom can help show what happens when a villain escapes.
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PJ Martin
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devinlow wrote:
Hi PJ,

Thanks for the question. Venom and Blob are intentionally very hard to take down for some assortments of Heroes and easy for other assortments. Having Venom tough to take down in the First Game Setup helps show right off the bat that Venom can be quite a slithery Villain to pin down. In short, Venom being sometimes quite tough to defeat is on purpose! zombie

That said, Venom wasn't added to the First Time Setup specifically for that reason. Instead, the foremost purpose of the First Time Setup is to give new players a fun, fast, flavorful way to learn the game. To that end, there are three goals for the First Time Setup:

1) Tend towards the lower-complexity abilities.
2) Use a low difficulty level for the first game so that players can start easily and increase the difficulty over time. (With tougher Masterminds, Schemes, and the rulebook's Challenge Modes)
3) Use some of the most recognizable Heroes and Villains.

As a result, the Spider-Foes are in the First Time Setup because their abilities are fairly straightforward and because they include some well-known, classic Marvel Villains like Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Venom, and The Lizard.

Cheers,

Devin Low meeple
Designer, Legendary


Thanks for the robust answer! My wife and I have played through twice now, and have enjoyed ourselves both times. sometimes my game theory wired brain gets ahead of me, leading to the inquiry.
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Gaby Moraga
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Thank you thank you for this because I too was stumped until I found this thread!!!
 
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Rob S
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Intended or not, I think this definitely is useful in the first-time setup!
 
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