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Subject: Is it too late to recommend changes to the game or components? rss

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Jeff Thornsen
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Now that this has officially been backed on Kickstarter, are all the cards and rules finalized? Or do we have a chance to provide feedback?

Based on the available reviews/images/rules, I have a couple of points which I hope can be addressed before the game is created. Perhaps some of these have already been addressed. I'm glad this is being published by Queen, because they care quite a lot about quality and I very rarely see bad components in their games.

1. Rename "Hero Points" to something simple like Coins, Gold, or Money. This was mentioned in a review but deserves repeating - having "Hero Points" for in-game spending, and "Legend Points" as victory points is going to be really annoying and confusing. And everyone is just going to call it Money/Gold/Coins anyway.

2. Please fix the order of the monster resistance iconography. "/2 Sword" makes no sense. "Sword/2" is obvious to anyone. Same with "Magic x2" and "Bow=0". For some reason which I cannot explain, this backwards-ness in the item discounts does not bother me (e.g. I think "-1 Sword" as an item discount is fine, but "Sword -1" is just as clear)

3. Consider adding icons to the various Armor types to make it very clear which 2 items you cannot wear at the same time. Having to look for a keyword like "Armor" or "Helmet" in the item name is error-prone, and it's much better for gameplay to simply have icons representing the various item types (Helm, Body Armor, Shield, Boots, whatever). This is doubly bad because most of the other item types already have icons to prevent double-equipping of the same "slot", so why does Armor have to be different?

4. I hope the iconography and syntax used to describe the item abilities are consistent. This is one of my biggest peeves with Thunderstone, different cards with the same intended effect were worded differently! In some of the images, I see stuff like "2 (Red Swords) if (Black Sword)" but also syntax like "1 (Exhaust Symbol): 1 (Magic Damage)". I prefer syntax of "(Cost/Prerequisite)->(Effect)" but at least be consistent. I understand a lot of these images are prototype components, just want to make sure.

5. It doesn't make sense that a player would get to use all of his weapons (Sword, bow, spells) prior to the monster doing anything. I would much rather play where you only make 1 attack at a time, and it normally takes 2 or 3 attacks to kill a monster unless you get extremely lucky (e.g. powerful bow with a monster weak to bows, perhaps combined with a necklace that boosts your ranged damage). Obviously this needs to be balanced with how armor works - it should be viable to build "tanky" and out-survive the other players, just as much as it should be viable to build "glass cannon" to kill as fast as possible. Maybe this isn't as bad as I am thinking because of the ability for players to dump sub-optimal monsters on other players.

So in summary, I am super excited about this game, but I don't want it to flop due to bad components/rules the same way that Thunderstone did for me.
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Ted Spencer
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Thank you. I was on the fence about this one. What kept me from ordering was the fact that many KickStarter games are underdeveloped, using gamers to do the work of developers.

Seems the same way here.
 
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Darrell Goodridge
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I agree with everything in the OP.

I just have to add: Proofread the Rulebook! Then do it again.
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Gláucio Reis
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superflat wrote:
Thank you. I was on the fence about this one. What kept me from ordering was the fact that many KickStarter games are underdeveloped, using gamers to do the work of developers.

Seems the same way here.

Does it? And you reached that conclusion based on one person's nitpicking and personal preferences? This is Queen Games, not some indie first-time publisher (or AEG, for that matter). I admit I have concerns myself, because I don't trust the designer (the same from Thunderstone, which does have a number of problems), but this has nothing to do with the game being on Kickstarter.
 
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Ted Spencer
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GSReis wrote:
superflat wrote:
Seems the same way here.

Does it? And you reached that conclusion based on one person's nitpicking and personal preferences?
No conclusion. "Seems" leaves it open for more conversation, which you brought.

Even well-established, well-respected game publishers will publish games with an eye to the play-testing public. No shame in that. Caveat Emptor.

The proof will be in the playing, not the stretch rewards.
 
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nikki pontius
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Hi Jeff,

I am reading your post and will probably reread it a few more times. One thing I would like to comment on is #5

A player chooses one weapon to attack with. And takes his one attack. If the monster is not dead it is the monsters turn to attack. The hero takes his damage and it is the next players turn to fight their own monster. The game goes round the table. You then may choose to fight the monster with the same weapon you fought with the last round or choose another from your store. Most likely you will choose the same weapon because it was the best one you had to fight that monster with.

Thanks,

Nikki QG-US
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Jeff Thornsen
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That's re-assuring. There is a section in the prototype rules uploaded here on the geek which says that you apply all your damage (melee, ranged, magic) before the monster acts.

Quote:
Hero and monster do not fight simultaneously. The player
attacks first and only if they do not defeat the monster
they must defend against the monster subsequently. The
attack proceeds as follows.

Determine damage separately for each of the 4 damage
types (see below), taking into account the monster’s corresponding
defense values. Apply the damage by placing
damage markers on the monster card of combined value
of the damage total. The monster is defeated, if the total
damage equals or exceeds the monster’s life points. In
that case, continue with 4. Evaluation.


I guess that spells, scrolls, potions, and other items can be combined with a regular attack? That seems OK to me, since you probably have to spend Mana or exhaust those cards when you use them.
 
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