Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

War and Peace» Forums » Rules

Subject: Counterattack and Reinforcements rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Bindusri de Silva
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The first round of battle has been resolved and the active player has declined to continue the attack due to the threat of reinforcements. Can the inactive player counterattack AND attempt to obtain reinforcements for the next round or must they resolve the counterattack prior to calling for reinforcements?
thanks Lakers24
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Gant
United States
Wakefield
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't see why not.

Here is the order of combat as outlined in the Q&A in General 17 #1:

Quote:

Q. Please outline the sequence followed during the Combat Phase.
A. The Combat Phase consists of an unlimited number of rounds of Combat. Each round should be resolved in the following sequence:
1. The active player indicates all of the attacks he wishes to initiate. Note: This step is omitted after the first round of combat.
2. The active player indicates all of the attacks he wishes to resolve during the current round of combat. For each attack, the dice are rolled once and a result is obtained from the Combat Results Table. For each attack, any required loss is immediately eliminated from the appropriate force(s).
3. After all of the indicated attacks have been resolved, first the active and then the inactive player may withdraw any force which participated in combat voluntarily. Anytime a hex is completely vacated by a withdrawing force, the opposing force which participated in combat against the hex may immediately advance into that hex.
4. After all voluntary withdrawals have been executed, first the active and then the inactive player may attempt to reinforce any force which participated in combat during the current round.
5. After all attempts to reinforce have been executed, all forces which possess a current morale value of zero must withdraw according to the restrictions of Rule Section Q. In accordance with the errata presented in this issue Rule Q.1.a. is amended as follows: If a withdrawing force does not occupy a city hex, it must retreat one hex in any direction providing it ends its withdrawal no fun her from a friendly supply source (in terms of Movement Points) than the hex it originally occupied.


Step 3 indicates the active player quitting combat. The inactive player would choose to continue. Step 4 follows and that is the reinforce step.

Your proposal sounds fine to me.

--JokerRulez
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I probably have the first edition of this, having bought it some 20 years ago.

Allthough it is good to see the game is still alive and I actually should play it again, I get the impression there have been a lot of changes in newere editions.

Back than I like it as it was.
Should I really bother to pay attention to all the new stuff?
Has this made it a better game?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Gant
United States
Wakefield
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Freddy,

If you liked the game as it was and want to get back in to it there is an improved path for you. The 3rd Edition rulebook, available for download here, merely captures all of the official work done for this game and compiles it in to a nice format. For example, the battle sequence of play I listed above is merely an official Q&A answer in a General magazine. Most people never saw that, however, so the ruling was lost. Not any more.

Then, you can try out a new version of the map with the 4th Edition, if you are like me and feel that old map just has too many issues.

Finally, if your interest carries you, the sequel was a huge effort to dramatically re-write, improve, and fix anything that was in need of such work. That is now called "The Struggle Between England and France" and is available for play now via VASSAL.

Do whatever most suits you.

Happy gaming,

--JokerRulez
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I read it somewhat differently. I think there is a distinction between withdrawing from a battle, and the active player simply declining to continue the attack after the first round has been resolved. If the active player actually voluntarily withdraws from the battle, as per step 3, then there is no further combat, as per:

Quote:
Q5. Un-demoralized units which advance or withdraw after combat may be committed to other previously initiated field battles. Units which withdraw from a field battle into a city may be assaulted during subsequent combat rounds of the same Combat Phase. In all other cases, units which withdraw or advance after combat may not participate in any additional combat for the remainder of the Combat Phase.


[emphasis added]

So in this case there is no provision for a counterattack by the inactive player. In the other case, the active player would simply declare, before resolving the second round, that he was not continuing that particular combat into the second round. It is in that case that the inactive player has the option of initiating a counterattack.

So, for example, let us say the active player initiates 3 combats in a combat phase, A, B and C. The complete first round would be completed, including possible reinforcement or withdrawal by either side. If neither side withdrew, before starting the second round the active player could simply declare that he was not continuing with attack A. He would resolve the second round of combat for B and C and THEN the inactive player could resolve a counterattack for combat A if he opted to do so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Moyer
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For what it's worth; I'm inclined to agree with deadkenny.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Moyer
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait a second,

Now that I think about it, the decision to commit additional forces would come at the end of combat round 1. I other words, it would come before the attacking player decided to not continue the attack in round 2.

This also means that the attacking player would already know if the attempt to commit additional troops to the battle was successful before he made his decision to continue the attack.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
MartyMcMartin wrote:
... the decision to commit additional forces would come at the end of combat round 1. In other words, it would come before the attacking player decided to not continue the attack in round 2.

This also means that the attacking player would already know if the attempt to commit additional troops to the battle was successful before he made his decision to continue the attack.


Exactly, which is why I highlight the two distinct options in my response. A voluntary withdrawal from battle would occur prior to reinforcements, however that would not allow for a counterattack by the original defender. The decision by the original 'attacker' to simply decline continuing the combat into the second round would allow the possibility of a counterattack. However, as you've pointed out, that decision would be made after first round reinforcement attempts.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timothy B.
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mb
Indeed, I don't believe you could get the counter-attack option after withdrawal/advance (what if you chose not to advance for some reason? Then you would possibly no longer be in contact.) I'm not sure that if the committals for the next round have been attempted you have the option of deciding not to fight that round just because that numb-nut Marshal Whatshisname failed to show up. By attempting to commit other forces, you are de facto stating your intent to fight another round. But if you were to allow this, then certainly the defender has the option of counter-attacking the attacker that has ceased combat yet hasn't withdrawn, and further, the defender can use all his forces that are at hand, which would include any he has managed to commit in anticipation of the next round of combat.

But I believe the question was originally about onne round of battle being fought and the attacker discontinuing battle without withdrawing and prior to any rolls to commit. How we played it back in the day was that the counter-attack was essentially the concluding portion of that combat round using the same armies that fought in that round, and without committing more forces. But I think we just assumed that was the way it was and just played it that way; it was just my brother and I afterall. So we may have been wrong.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timothy B.
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mb
Wait, I re-read the q&A from the General posted by John and it would appear that by choosing not to resolve a battle during the current round of battle you are de facto discontinuing battle, and this could be after you failed a crucial committal roll, so I guess I was wrong about not being able to decline battle after attempting to commit other forces. Doubtless we played with many such 'house rules.
blush
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.