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Mr. Madison's War: The Incredible War of 1812» Forums » Rules

Subject: Terrian modifiers rss

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Kevin Davidson

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Okay got a game in yesterday and my opponent and I had a couple of questions that popped up. But I'll create separate threads to help other gamers when they may come across same questions.

On the reference card, and in the play book on page 5 under BATTLE number 2 it states that Terrain modifiers (which include Amphibious assault which seems odd to me to be a terrain modifier in the sense of an old grognard where terrain is mountain, town, forest etc.) the maximum modifier for terrain is -1.

In the rule book on page 13 10.4 Land Combat Modifiers it does not mention this limitation what so ever that I can see. Now I may have missed it on another page or something and if so I apologize ahead of time.

One thing about this maximum of -1 that doesn't make sense is that one of the modifiers is -2 "if Regular or Militia units attack a forested space containing only Indian units, so if the maximum modifier is -1 that shoots this one down right away. Same thing goes for attacking Montreal across a Major Invasion route.

I maybe missing something here but it makes more sense not to have a limitation on Terrain.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Kevin
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Gilbert Collins
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Hello Kevin:

Poor choice of words on my part. But I couldn't think of another word for 'terrain' that would describe what I wanted to occur. But this is what I wanted to happen and the way we have been playing it. In the 3 years of play testing (and we did do outside play testing) nobody questioned it.

For the actual terrain in the space I wanted the modifier to be a maximum of -1, but the Major River Crossing is included in this. In other words rivers are 'terrain' and if occur in conjunction with a forested space the maximum modifier for terrain is -1.

Now as someone has pointed out I used the term "amphibious" in the play book for the Major River Crossing modifier. I shouldn't have used this term, because a Major River Crossing is NOT technically an amphibious invasion.

An Amphibious Invasion in Mr. Madison's War means attacks using naval units, thus THAT modifier is always used in the first round.

Also the special "Indian in the woods modifier" is in addition to the standard forest modifier. It would have to be or else the rule would make no sense. So Indians in the woods effectively get a -2.

Hope this helps and I hope you are enjoying the game.

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Kevin Davidson

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Again thanks for getting back on the question.

So to make it clear basically other than a clear terrain box, Indians in Forest, and the Montreal special deal it's always going to be just - 1 for the terrain no matter what other combination might occur.
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Mark Evans
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xlegion wrote:
Hello Kevin:

Poor choice of words on my part. But I couldn't think of another word for 'terrain' that would describe what I wanted to occur. But this is what I wanted to happen and the way we have been playing it. In the 3 years of play testing (and we did do outside play testing) nobody questioned it.

For the actual terrain in the space I wanted the modifier to be a maximum of -1, but the Major River Crossing is included in this. In other words rivers are 'terrain' and if occur in conjunction with a forested space the maximum modifier for terrain is -1.

Now as someone has pointed out I used the term "amphibious" in the play book for the Major River Crossing modifier. I shouldn't have used this term, because a Major River Crossing is NOT technically an amphibious invasion.

An Amphibious Invasion in Mr. Madison's War means attacks using naval units, thus THAT modifier is always used in the first round.

Also the special "Indian in the woods modifier" is in addition to the standard forest modifier. It would have to be or else the rule would make no sense. So Indians in the woods effectively get a -2.

Hope this helps and I hope you are enjoying the game.



This didn't help me at all. I am looking at Page 13 of the Rulebook, the Land Combat Results Table and the Land Combat Procedure on the Reference Card, and page 5 of the Playbook.

10.41 says terrain is Amphibious Attack... with 6 items listed. I can accept that all these are terrain.

Reference Card 'Land Combat Procedure' says the maximum terrain modifier is -1.

Reference Card 'Land Combat Table' lists the possible modifiers with a undefined + or - for Indians in forests.

Playbook 'Page 5' reinforces that the worst the terrain modifier can be is -1.

I am not even sure where to begin with forming a good question. I really think the original question on this thread was adequate, but the answer is very unclear to me.

Let me put a question out there that will clarify this for me.

Are the modifiers in listed in 10.41 cumulative or does only one apply? (e.g. Indians attacking militia in a forest would be -3)
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Gilbert Collins
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For terrain modifiers only one applies. But what is meant by terrain is what is causing the confusion.

Thus if the attacker is crossing a major invasion route (really a river) that is terrain. Forest is terrain. So, if the defender was defending against a unit crossing at a major invasion route but also Ina forest, he only gets the one modifier.

However where Indians are concerned or an amphibious invasion is happening the modifiers are accumulative. The forest cause the Indian modifier to take effect but is not the modifier itself. Same with the amphibious invasion. Yes an amphibious invasion by definition is coming by water but the modifier is "amphibious invasion" not a terrain.
 
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Mark Evans
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I still have no idea.shake
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Gilbert Collins
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Maybe I should have made a small table which would have cleared things up. Consider the following:

TERRAIN MODIFIERS

Major Invasion Route (actually a river)
Forest space (self evident)

STANDARD MODIFIERS WITH SOME CONDITIONS (eg. Indians)


Amphibious
Indians
Leaders
Odds Ratio
Class of Unit
British Regulars on clear space in 1812 and 1813
Montreal Space

So, in a nutshell there are only really two 'terrain' modifiers and only one of these can occurr at the same time. Thus, you will never have a -2 for Major Invasion Route and forest. One or the other.
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Mark Evans
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OK, that helps.
 
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