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Mr. Madison's War: The Incredible War of 1812» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lake Transport or Amphib Transport rss

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Kevin Davidson

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I found the player card a bit confusing until I read 11.15 and that cleared it up for me. I am wondering, and this is my own personal view, if it might not have been better to have anything related to Naval movement (on the player reference card) under Naval Movement (which background is blue) and moved off of what I assume is meant to be land movement for movement costs which has a picture of a foot soldier (and a background of green, which to me represents land movement?). As foot movement is not really expending any movement points, it's the Naval units doing the humping so to speak. But that is probably me just being a bit picky as the rules did make it clear to me. Okay on to my question.

If I activate a Naval Leader (8.5) and some Naval units in a space where say there is one land unit, could I (this assumes I have the Naval movement and capacity throughout this example) pick up the land unit move to another lakeside town where there is two more land units picking them up and then land all three for an amphib attack on an enemy lakeside town?

Cheers
Kevin
 
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Gilbert Collins
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Hey Kevin, yes I had noted that 'anomaly' when the artist first did the charts. I thought I had mentioned this, but I guess it somehow was missed in the production. But the fault is mine not the artists.

Still, it still can be construed to be in the proper section since it is called "Movement Costs". The depiction of a soldier is 'eye candy' but I could see where some people would think it means only land movement costs.

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Kevin Davidson

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Thanks for getting back with me so quickly. What about the following, could an activated Naval Leader pull off my stated example? I'm thinking yes. The example in the rule book is well done on how to do this for picking up and dropping off Naval units, just wondering if it also applies to picking up and dropping off land units.

zhodanicommando wrote:


If I activate a Naval Leader (8.5) and some Naval units in a space where say there is one land unit, could I (this assumes I have the Naval movement and capacity throughout this example) pick up the land unit move to another lakeside town where there is two more land units picking them up and then land all three for an amphib attack on an enemy lakeside town?

Cheers
Kevin
 
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Mark Evans
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It looks like you only get one shot with the sage on the mountain in the cave.

If I understand your question I would say 'yes' is the answer.

Example:

3 British Brigs are in York with Barclay and a 13th unit.
Load the 13th = 1 MP
Move to Kingston = 2 MP
Pick up the 103rd and 49th units = 3 MP
Move to Sackets Harbor = 4 MP
Unload for an amphibious invasion = 6 MP

EDIT: Barclay should be Yeo.
 
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Kevin Davidson

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I got a good chuckle out of the cave bit. My opponent and I have another go at this one tomorrow, and I believe you are correct and it shall be played so. Of course I get to be the good guys, but you have to guess which side that is

Cheers
Kevin
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Mark Evans
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My country hasn't always been the good guys. The general consensus is that we were the bad guys in this one. I never got a sense of how this war played into a sense of Canadian nationalism until I visited the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

Anyway, you must be playing the British.
 
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Rob Doane
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Quote:
My country hasn't always been the good guys. The general consensus is that we were the bad guys in this one. I never got a sense of how this war played into a sense of Canadian nationalism until I visited the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.


For some strange reason, people don't usually appreciate being invaded!
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Mark Evans
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Yeah, people are funny aren't they.
 
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Kevin Davidson

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Got my 2nd game in yesterday face to face and this time pretty sure we played the rules correctly with all the questions answered by Gilbert and company before we played, allowing us to concentrate more on strategy. I played the Americans and did a bunch of stupid things that actually helped me open my eyes more as to strategy. Even though I was getting my butt kicked the game kept me successfully engaged and I must say I love how the game is balanced. I felt from a history point that Gilbert in a simple way got the lake and land warfare spot on. I think I may have a new favorite game to play for a while.

Some of the stupid things I did, thinking I was being a fox, happened on Lake Erie. I had Perry and fleet in Lake Control box and I was weak around the Fort George area. Well a card I had would help me get VP's if I took it so I managed to pick up a bunch of Land units and expend all my movement points getting to the area I would need them next play. My mistake was leaving two schooners in the Lake Control box (I should have just took them with the fleet), well out pops the British/Canadian fleet and there went my two schooners.

The other happened on Lake Ontario, thinking I would out smart my opponent I landed some troops that could (at the time) only draw supply from the lake. My mistake was not leaving any ships there for them to use the lake to retreat when the British/Canadian player counter attacked. Well shame on me, after fighing the battle I did not want to fight I had to retreat to a zero area and lost them later to attrition (they were stuck being reduced I couldn't attack nor relieve them).

I can say for sure I think I've got these rules done pretty good and won't make those mistakes again. I can see where battles are important but manuever more so, and there were times when I needed to do so many things but couldn't because of my cards. Oh and by the way, in 1812 (spring/summer and summer/fall) I never got in my hand one victory point card to play as the Americans.

Cheers Kevin

PS
I posted this short bit on CSW as well.
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Gilbert Collins
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Close but no cigar.

Your example of the amphibious attack is correct right up to the last debarkation point and thus would not be possible. It is 1 mp to drop off any land units but another 1 mp if you drop it off in an enemy space (a real amphibious attack).

Note the subtle difference between the cost of transport and amphibious. That is why to do an amphibious invasion you have to start from one lakeside town only, this is intentional and is stated somewhere in the rules. I remember the statement to the effect "amphibious attacks will always originate in one town and end in one town"

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Mark Evans
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Sorry Gilbert,

My example has the correct movement point count. I don't know if that is the one you are referring to, I didn't see another one.

And the no picking up extra units rule doesn't exist.
 
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Lance Roberts
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No, we may not have been perfect, but the British were the bad guys, just cause the focus here is Canada, remember that the White House was burned down, and the final battle was the Battle of New Orleans (pretty far south from the game area); but I think the worse was impressment of Americans (i.e. enslavement).

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The United States declared war in 1812 for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by Britain's ongoing war with France, the impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion, outrage over insults to national honor after humiliations on the high seas, and possible American desire to annex Canada.
 
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Gilbert Collins
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Mark, yes looking back your example is actually correct. I mis-read the way you were denoting the costs. The reason the 'picking up extra units' is not specifically in the rules is because it doesn't need to be.

As per your example if a player tries to do it he will not have enough movement points to do so. It is in the rules that a land unit may never end its move on board a naval vessel.

Some situations I wanted players to discover by themselves. The Amphibious Invasion from one space to another is an example of this.

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Mark Evans
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Thanks Lance for that.
 
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Mark Evans
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xlegion wrote:
Mark, yes looking back your example is actually correct. I mis-read the way you were denoting the costs. The reason the 'picking up extra units' is not specifically in the rules is because it doesn't need to be.

As per your example if a player tries to do it he will not have enough movement points to do so. It is in the rules that a land unit may never end its move on board a naval vessel.

Some situations I wanted players to discover by themselves. The Amphibious Invasion from one space to another is an example of this.



Forgive me in advance for going on about this (or is it aboot?). In my example there were enough points available to to a quick pick up.
 
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Gilbert Collins
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Mark, you are correct again. Perfectly legal move and a good one. I have it my head that the naval vessels are travelling to two different towns but as your example shows the vessels began their turn in York.

Just one thing though, you said 'Barclay' I hope you meant 'Yeo' because Commodore Barclay can only operate on Lake Erie not Lake Ontario.

Kevin, your game sounds just like all of ours when we were learning it. That delicate combination of land and water changes everything. Especially 'timing' as you are no doubt finding out. Leave a couple of schooners in a lake box and they can get clipped.

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Mark Evans
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xlegion wrote:
Just one thing though, you said 'Barclay' I hope you meant 'Yeo' because Commodore Barclay can only operate on Lake Erie not Lake Ontario.


Ummmm... Bazinga...! You got me there. I don't have any idea how I put that example together. It was a long time ago. Yeo is the choice.

Just for sake of completeness. Does this mean a Naval Commander can't choose to walk around without ships?
 
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Gilbert Collins
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For any movement on water he would need a vessel. I don't think I actually stated it one way or the other in the rules. These guys aren't walking on Lake Galilee here.

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Mark Evans
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I meant walk around on land. I wasn't getting 'walk on water' crazy.
 
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Gilbert Collins
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In theory, a naval leader could move on land but there would absolutely be no purpose to do so. A leader alone can't do anything on land, and must retreat before combat if it encounters any enemy units.

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