Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

1830: Railways & Robber Barons» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tile oo13 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How do you ever place tile oo13 without violating any of the rules laid out in 7.2.2? I don't get it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
That's a number 36 using the original numbering.

It won't go in C&A's space but there are 3 other OOs that it will play on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This will work for 002, but not for 001.
I you would substitute oo1 (old 626) for oo13, then you would surely violate rules 7.2.2.3 and 7.2.2.4.
Correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Please use standard tile numberings. Many of us already know or can refer to the standard numbers: 18xx tile database

Note: #626 is not a Double-O.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
626 into 36
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Stephan Valkyser wrote:
626 into 36


Can never happen as #626 is not a Double-O and #036 is a Double-O.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clearclaw wrote:
Please use standard tile numberings. Many of us already know or can refer to the standard numbers: 18xx tile database

Note: #626 is not a Double-O.


In Mayfair Games' (and Lookout Games') edition 626 is a double-0 which (according to the substitution table in the rulebook) should be able to be substituted into 36, but I don't see how this is possible without violating rule 7.2.2 (preserving old track and exits).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see that you are probably referring to the 18xx tile database, which unfortunately does not mirror the changes that have been made in the new version.
626 IS a double-O tile in the new version.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Stephan Valkyser wrote:
I see that you are probably referring to the 18xx tile database, which unfortunately does not mirror the changes that have been made in the new version.


Yeah, the Mayfair printing has a number of such errors.

Quote:
626 IS a double-O tile in the new version.


Shrug. Which is wrong (and almost entirely irrelevant).

The Blackwater Station Tile Encyclopedia is quite good about tracking legal upgrades.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hanno Girke
Germany
Schwabenheim an der Selz
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CrankyPants wrote:
That's a number 36 using the original numbering.

It won't go in C&A's space but there are 3 other OOs that it will play on.


Stephan is correct that this tile is NOT playable under the standard rules layed out in 7.2.2. It can't be legally played on a green #59.
It was included in the mix for groups who play the variant that the 2 initial exits of the green OO tile can be joined.
Not my piece of cake, just take it out of the mix as I do.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hanno wrote:

It was included in the mix for groups who play the variant that the 2 initial exits of the green OO tile can be joined.


Variant?
According to the new rulebook there is no rule that forbids the joining of the two initial exits - or did I miss it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Stephan Valkyser wrote:
According to the new rulebook there is no rule that forbids the joining of the two initial exits - or did I miss it?


From the AH rules:

18.1 Replacement of Tiles
When green tiles become available (see 22.0) they may, in general, be used to replace yellow tiles which are already on the board. A replacement has to always maintain all existing track, alterations being additions to what was previously depicted. Similarly, when brown tiles become available, they may be used to replace green tiles. A list of all legal replacements is given in Table 6 for reference.


The key sentence is underlined.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clearclaw wrote:
Stephan Valkyser wrote:
According to the new rulebook there is no rule that forbids the joining of the two initial exits - or did I miss it?


From the AH rules:

18.1 Replacement of Tiles
When green tiles become available (see 22.0) they may, in general, be used to replace yellow tiles which are already on the board. A replacement has to always maintain all existing track, alterations being additions to what was previously depicted. Similarly, when brown tiles become available, they may be used to replace green tiles. A list of all legal replacements is given in Table 6 for reference.


The key sentence is underlined.


Thanks for your response, but I am afraid you're missing the point.

1) I am quoting the Mayfair/Lookout rulebook, not the AH rulebook. (I have been owning the AH version since 1986, but today we were playing an 1830+ variant from the new version)

2) Hanno was referring to the rule that you may not connect the two cities on a green 00-tile while upgrading to brown.
This rule is not in the Mayfair/Lookout rulebook unless I missed it.

3) The sentence you underlined - while true - has nothing to do with the ability of upgrading tile 626 (Mayfair version) into 36, right?

I do not want to bitch here, I just want to understand what the designers of the new version were intending.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Stephan Valkyser wrote:
3) The sentence you underlined - while true - has nothing to do with the ability of upgrading tile 626 (Mayfair version) into 36, right?


I can't answer that given that I have no idea what Mayfair call a #626 despite repeated requests for a definition.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Valkyser
Germany
Wesseling
NRW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It looks basically like the 626 in the 18xx database, but with two large cities. It is labelled as a 00-tile.

But if you don't know the Mayfair version, you probably cannot answer my question.
Hanno, can you?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Train gamer, Euro gamer and War gamer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know if this may be of help:

From the Mayfair errata pdf:

Quote:
Tile Numbering – Older
1) Several 1830+ variant tiles have incorrect numbers in the older numbering system:
oo1 (626) should be oo1 (8861) according to one website supporting the older numbering system and no number on the other.
oo13 (36) should have a number that is NOT 36—neither support site has a number for this tile.(it has a vaue of 40 rather than 50)
[File with no old number to be included in replacement tile sheet.]
oo14 (35) should have a number that is NOT 35--neither support site has a number for this tile..(it has a value of 40 rather than 50) [File with no old number to be included in replacement tile sheet.]
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Stephan Valkyser wrote:
But if you don't know the Mayfair version, you probably cannot answer my question. Hanno, can you?


I have Mayfair's 1830, but remote from me and this machine, thus my reticence.

#59 cannot upgrade to anything with a track pattern like #626, but #10 can.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Mathes
Germany
Essen
NRW
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
To bring the whole thing back to the OP:

The rule in question in the Mayfair version is:

Quote:
7.2.2.

4 When a tile is replaced, all stations on the replaced tile must be
placed on the new tile with the same connections as before.


The respective ruling in the AH version is:

Quote:
18.1 Replacement of Tiles
When green tiles become available (see 22.0) they may, in general, be used to replace yellow tiles which are already on the board. A replacement has to always maintain all existing track, alterations being additions to what was previously depicted. Similarly, when brown tiles become available, they may be used to replace green tiles. A list of all legal replacements is given in Table 6 for reference.


With the standard "00" tile (#59), the two $ 40 cities feature each one connection in an angle of 120°. As the two cities are sepereate and each has a connection to a specific side of the hex, there is no way in either the Mayfair or the AH version to replace a tile #59 with Mayfair tiles #oo13 or #oo14 as each of these would result in the fusion of the two existing cities and one city would loose its existing connection and get two different new ones.

If the use of tiles #oo13 and #oo14 should be made possible, there should be a "OO" tile where the two cities are placed in an angle of 60°.

BTW, the proposed promotion of Mayfair tiles #oo10 - #oo17 to #oo20 is violating the replacement rules for tiles #oo12 and #oo13 as well.

Ciao

Martin
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Berry
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Pentaclebreaker wrote:
To bring the whole thing back to the OP:


Thanks for quoting the rules.

For those of us who don't have the new edition, the new tiles can be seen on this geek image:


Quote:
If the use of tiles #oo13 and #oo14 should be made possible, there should be a "OO" tile where the two cities are placed in an angle of 60°.


I don't see how a 60° angle would help. You would need a tile #10, i.e. an "OO" tile where the two cities are places at an angle of 180°. This tile was included in the very first 18xx game, 1829, and in the regional expansion kits for 1825.

Quote:
BTW, the proposed promotion of Mayfair tiles #oo10 - #oo17 to #oo20 is violating the replacement rules for tiles #oo12 and #oo13 as well.


I think you're right about #oo13 but the promotion for #oo12 is valid.

Dave.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Mathes
Germany
Essen
NRW
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Uhps, you a right . . . 180°.

And as well you are right concerning tile #oo12, the arrangement of the track on the tile is slighly confusing my sense for cartesian coordinates

Ciao

Martin
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.