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Subject: Lobby Card timing rss

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Don't Panic!
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The rules tell me to take the main benefit of a Lobby Card when I take the Action. So can I use the benefit I get towards the Action I'm trying to do?

For example, if I construct as my action and have a Lobby Card that gives me $3 for constructing in the region I'm in, can I take the $3 before I have to pay for the construction, therefore possibly allowing me to do something that others may have thought I was unable to do?
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Jim Andrew
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no, you play the main lobby after you do your action. here's what was written in the official FAQ

Quote:
3. How exactly can I use the lobby card for the main lobby?
A: In the same turn, you need to take the specific action shown on the
card. Example: Card 1. If you have proposed a project in Asia, you may play
this card as your card action to gain $3
 
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Don't Panic!
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Hmmm - not sure this answers my question. It doesn't state that you need to have completed the action, it just says you need to be taking it. As card actions can be taken during your turn, my question is can they be used mid action?
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Ken Dilloo
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Is there any other game where you can use the benefit of taking an action (pr part of the action) to pay for that action? Seems like you might be trying to lawyer this a bit.
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Don't Panic!
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bigloo33 wrote:
Is there any other game where you can use the benefit of taking an action (pr part of the action) to pay for that action? Seems like you might be trying to lawyer this a bit.


I wasn't trying to 'lawyer' the game, I was looking for an answer to my question which is quite simply when do you get the benefit of the card that you play when you take the action. If you don't use the main lobby you can have the benefit before taking the action. If the rules stated that I take a benefit for a card after taking the action then it would be clear to me. However the rules state that I take it when I take the action, and I just wondered what the timing was. Just because other games don't do it means nothing.
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Hammock Backpacker
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bigloo33 wrote:
Is there any other game where you can use the benefit of taking an action (pr part of the action) to pay for that action? Seems like you might be trying to lawyer this a bit.


I tend to agree.

It seems that "take" in this instance means "complete" the action.

The fact that other games don't do this is relevant given that in ambiguous situations you'd side with other games that feature this behavior *unless* the rules explicitly state that you do otherwise. Since the rules don't call out an explicit difference, I'd side with other games and say you have to have completed the action *before* taking the benefit of the lobby card.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Although, I could see thematic argument. They are lobby cards, maybe you are getting $ from a special interest to build, in that region.
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Andi Hub
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In the "card manifest" pretty much at the end of the rules, the following is written for this lobby card: "When you construct the indicated power plant, pay $3 less." So this lobby card is really a subsidy. (I just looked at the downloadable rules from giochix.it. I do not know, if the shipped version may have other rules.)
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Vital Lacerda
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I'm not sure if this answers your question, but if you are lack of money to build, the construction lobby can be used to build with a $3 discount, so you will need to pay 3 less coins.

You can also get that money from the CEPs market, of course.
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Don't Panic!
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newrev wrote:
I'm not sure if this answers your question, but if you are lack of money to build, the construction lobby can be used to build with a $3 discount, so you will need to pay 3 less coins.

You can also get that money from the CEPs market, of course.


Vital - thank you. To the rescue again! Yes, this answers my question that I can use the benefit of the card to have a direct impact on the action it is played for. This was how I taught it today as it seemed to allow clever use of the cards, and enabled players to pull moves that hadn't looked possible. It took a little while for the new players to fully grasp that you can use the free actions at any point during your turn, and often combined in quite smart ways. Once you get this, the game takes on a different shape, and is similar to Vinhos in that way.

This will have a substantial impact on the solo game from my experiences as you refresh your lobby card hand. I'm finding in the solo games I play a lot of lobby cards. Still yet to beat it though...
 
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Brian Jones
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This is good to know. I'm finding the rules for this game to be very tricky, precisely because of the issue brought up here - there is no one timing rule for how all cards function, and the symbology does not seem to be consistent throughout the game. (and I don't think I'm alone, there are quite a few rules questions here)

I hope the folks who are so quick to call someone for rules "lawyering" will take a minute and think next time - rules for many games, especially those designed by a non-native English speaker, are sometimes full of ambiguity. We need people to ask these questions.

Edit:
Looking through the forum, I'm not sure I've ever seen a game with this short of a rulebook have so many people answer questions about rules incorrectly. Not to mention the game end condition that has errata - I have no idea if I'm playing the game correctly.
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Bartosz Popow
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Due to end game rule errata and scientist symbol errata on a lobby card, we were playing this game wrong, especially we finished too early (third decade I presume). And we moved "own" scientists wrong after installation / building. Like I said though, "end game" change is the most significant in my opinion.
 
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Vital Lacerda
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bclayj wrote:
Not to mention the game end condition that has errata - I have no idea if I'm playing the game correctly.


Hi Brian,
I already presented public apologies about it. I wrote it in the FAQ and corrected in the errata.
I'm providing players daily answers about their doubts, sometimes I answering the same question in different forums, and even with some answers well described in the rulebook, I still prefer to wrote it in here, taking any doubts that might appear.
I'm also responding to all GMs I receive, so if you have any doubt about the game just send me a GM, and I will be happy to answer you.

In this case the rule book clearly states that you can play the card in anytime during your turn, and the constructions cards say in the descriptive that you 'pay less 3$'.
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Brian Jones
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Thank you Vital, you have been very active on the forums here, which is appreciated.

My post was aimed more at those who seem to show up in every other thread with a rules question to criticize the poster for what they see as rules lawyering or questions that are "obviously" answered by the rules.

That said, I did start a thread in the rules forum with questions about the solitaire game that I still am unsure about. Thanks again for designing this great game.
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Vital Lacerda
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Did I miss any post?
Please point me out to it.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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newrev wrote:
Did I miss any post?
Please point me out to it.


Think he was referring to my hasty post, and poor word choice above, Vital. Apparently, this was an issue for BJ. Apologies.

Thanks for being so active here and making fantastic games. I will try to learn your rules better, before trying to answer questions blush
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Brian Jones
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newrev wrote:
Did I miss any post?
Please point me out to it.


No, Ken, I was referring to this post of mine in the rules forum:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/891490/questions-about-t...
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