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Subject: Wow! Playing Turn Incorrectly for 33 Games!! rss

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Bill Kunes
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I just realized that we've been playing the Turn incorrectly. Instead of each player, in turn, taking actions for both dice, we have always played it playing one die and once everyone has completed an action they take their second action, in player order.

How does this change the game? I would think player order takes an even more critical role in the game and increases the importance of the ship tiles--which I rarely pursue. I would think that the game would even play faster than it does the way we've been playing it.

What have I been missing? What should I expect when we play it correctly?
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Michael Denman
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I don't think it really makes turn order so important, but it WILL speed up the game considerably and that's a good thing, eh?
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-matt s.
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bkunes wrote:
I just realized that we've been playing the Turn incorrectly. Instead of each player, in turn, taking actions for both dice, we have always played it playing one die and once everyone has completed an action they take their second action, in player order.

How does this change the game? I would think player order takes an even more critical role in the game and increases the importance of the ship tiles--which I rarely pursue. I would think that the game would even play faster than it does the way we've been playing it.

What have I been missing? What should I expect when we play it correctly?


Shipping is certainly important for turn order, but I've played being at the back of the pack the whole game and won only because everyone else was fighting over ships and would run away with animals or bonus tiles (or both)
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Pasvik -
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bkunes wrote:
I just realized that we've been playing the Turn incorrectly. Instead of each player, in turn, taking actions for both dice, we have always played it playing one die and once everyone has completed an action they take their second action, in player order.

How does this change the game? I would think player order takes an even more critical role in the game and increases the importance of the ship tiles--which I rarely pursue. I would think that the game would even play faster than it does the way we've been playing it.



shake

Something like this happened to us playing Suburbia. Misread a rule without recognising for many games...

But yes, I think this changes the game considerably since some combos are much easier to achieve by having two consecutive actions in a row. And the combos are what it is all about, isn´t it?


(Edits for typos only)
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Andrés Pérez
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bkunes wrote:
I just realized that we've been playing the Turn incorrectly. Instead of each player, in turn, taking actions for both dice, we have always played it playing one die and once everyone has completed an action they take their second action, in player order.


wait wait wait... hold on... I read the rules several times and they clearly state that HOLY CRAP YOU'RE RIGHT!! blush ......

well, that's a gonna be a little different. Glad you cleared that up before I taught my wife! laugh Thanks!
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Bill Kunes
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HokieGeek wrote:
bkunes wrote:
I just realized that we've been playing the Turn incorrectly. Instead of each player, in turn, taking actions for both dice, we have always played it playing one die and once everyone has completed an action they take their second action, in player order.


wait wait wait... hold on... I read the rules several times and they clearly state that HOLY CRAP YOU'RE RIGHT!! blush ......

well, that's a gonna be a little different. Glad you cleared that up before I taught my wife! laugh Thanks!

You just stated my realization fairly well. Enjoy. I need to ge explain to my wife we've been playing it wrong all along, although we enjoyed the game taking turns. It will be interesting to see how it feels after correcting our mistake.
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Neil Christiansen
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The correct rules make falling behind on ships pretty dismal. We played 3-player tonight and one player started his castle far away from the navy spaces and had slim pickings the entire game because of it. I played the board with the 6 navy hexes connected and next to a single castle which I chose as start. I went first almost all game and cruised it to a narrow victory over the other player who competed for ships.
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Michael Denman
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chris1nd wrote:
The correct rules make falling behind on ships pretty dismal. We played 3-player tonight and one player started his castle far away from the navy spaces and had slim pickings the entire game because of it.


I've heard this before and I think it's an exaggeration. Why should the last player have slim picking for the entire game? You get 25 turns. Only five of those would you possibly miss out on something you really wanted and someone else grabbed it first. I'll sometimes make an effort to get into first right when a new round is starting, but otherwise it really doesn't matter.
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Tomello Visello
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bkunes wrote:
I just realized that we've been playing the Turn incorrectly. Instead of each player, in turn, taking actions for both dice, we have always played it playing one die and once everyone has completed an action they take their second action, in player order.

The question I would have is, so how did you came to think this was intended?

Quotes from the rules:

A PLAYER'S TURN
… consists of carrying out exactly two actions, one per die. Once a die has been used, it is placed onto the used die storage space in the upper right hand corner of the player’s board.


(ellipsis points theirs)

and a sidebar next to that

Starting with the start player and then continuing in turn order, each player uses their dice to carry out two actions



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Bill Kunes
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In a nutshell, I read the instructions in the car on the way home from Gen Con. We didn't play it for the first time until a few days later.

I assumed players would play one of their dice in turn and then play another like so many other games I'd played (assumed straight forward). Our references back to the rule book were focused on learning the icons and benefits of the buildings and knowledge tiles. Who would think I'd need to verify how many dice we got to play??? Oops.
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Craig Hallstrom
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I've played it both ways (made the same mistake at first). It definitely strengthens the Ship action if people take two actions at once. Being last in a four player game can feel pretty brutal - just watch all those beautiful tiles snapped up before you have a chance to get them, especially with the dearth of tiles left towards the end of a year.

But winning in last all game is certainly possible - just need to take tiles early in the year, have a plan to use non-tile taking actions in the later half of the year and to stock up on workers for added flexibility at the end of a year to be prepared for the next one.
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Bill Kunes
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We've played a few games with the rule change and more than anything at this point we seem to be looking for and taking more combinations more than anything else. I believe we still have some things to learn yet.
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Andy Evans
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Ooops just realised I've just been playing it one die at a time as well.

blush

Looking forward to trying it again the correct way.
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Bill Kunes
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ajevans wrote:
Ooops just realised I've just been playing it one die at a time as well.

blush

Looking forward to trying it again the correct way.



It's good to know you are not alone, huh? Hopefully you still enjoyed it the other way. Perhaps that says something about the game that it can be played incorrectly and still be fun.

meeple Keep playing...
 
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Kathleen Nugent
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My opponent and I have always played the turn order correctly. But I wanted to comment about the ships - and the mines as well. He always tried to get all his ships placed. He always went first in turn order because of that. And he placed mines as quickly as he could grab them.

Yet I kept winning the game by 50 - 100 points. So it's not necessarily the boats that create an unbeatable winning condition.
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Neil Christiansen
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No one suggests that going first is a sure key to victory.

And one can argue about the value of mines versus certain knowledge tiles early on...although it isn't much of an argument since some knowledge tiles are far better.

But going first can be a decided advantage, depending on what one chooses. Part of this is being able to prevent opponents from choosing what they need most. If one overlooks this, they will likely lose.

The value also seems to depend on number of players (although the game scales well in general). I play almost exclusively with 4 players. My sense is going first is more important with 4 than 2 or 3.
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Mike Putrino
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Trump wrote:
I don't think it really makes turn order so important, but it WILL speed up the game considerably and that's a good thing, eh?


I think your wrong about that. When you are only playing one dice at a time you do not have to concern yourself with possibly being blocked, and or allowing large combos to occur.

Once you start play the way intended I feel the game will open itself up to you.
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Trevor Franklin
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Well, I played the turn actions rule correctly, but thanks to this thread I realize I played the turn ORDER rules incorrectly. I played that the person behind got to go first (discouraging shipping), when in fact it's he who ships most who goes first. Oops.
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Brian Baier
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Piping in, glad to hear I've not been alone in this regard. The clarification of consecutive actions was in a sidebar ("Starting with the start player and then continuing in turn order, each player uses their dice to carry out two actions") which I completely missed.

It wasn't until some people I taught went and bought their own copy that I was informed of the discrepancy. That was 2 or 3 years since I've been playing my copy.

I actually think playing one action per turn makes for a slightly more balanced and challenging game. As some have mentioned, the chance for combos is decreased, but it's all the sweeter when you manage to pull them off. Each following player has one more thing to consider when the chance for blocking a combo is an option.
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Spencer Agnew
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elucidarian wrote:

I actually think playing one action per turn makes for a slightly more balanced and challenging game. As some have mentioned, the chance for combos is decreased, but it's all the sweeter when you manage to pull them off. Each following player has one more thing to consider when the chance for blocking a combo is an option.


I agree. Like many others here, I discovered after several plays that the "one dice action per turn" method we were using was incorrect. But after playing the correct way, we found that we prefer the "incorrect" method. Taking both actions at once had the effect of introducing more AP to the turns, whereas when taking a single action per turn the game flowed more quickly and smoothly. Turn order is still valued, particularly in the early rounds of an age due to the limited availability of tiles (mines, castles, building types). Choices are also more interesting because you have to give more consideration to what tile your opponent might take before your second turn.

We will be house-ruling this turn order method going forward whenever we play.
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