Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Enough with the Hero comparisons rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This game is compared to Sentinels of the Multiverse a ton, and I think to another game too. But what is Legendary? It's thematically a super hero game (OK, the super hero game comparisons do have their place). But it's mechanically a deck building coop game. Are there any other games like that? Shadowrift is the only other one I know of. Anyone have compare/contrast comments for Legendary and Shadowrift?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Weber
Germany
Wendeburg
Germany
flag msg tools
Yo quiero estar contigo, vivir contigo, bailar contigo
badge
Yo quiero estar contigo, vivir contigo, bailar contigo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spellbound is a coop deckbuilder. It is quite unique in the sense that all players build ONE collective deck for all players.

One of the four Runeage scenarios is a coop game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Itai Rosenbaum
Israel
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mixo wrote:
One of the four Runeage scenarios is a coop game.


And another is semi-coop.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♫ Eric Herman ♫
United States
West Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've only barely played Legendary, and it's fun, but IMO Shadowrift is a much better game as a co-op deck builder. They're different audiences and flavors, though. No time now to get into the details of that, but I'll try to at some point.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've not played any Rune___ games (not that I would mind trying them). But thanks for the reference.

I also just thought of something. I'm not looking to start a pissing match between Legendary and any other games, just asking for how they compare. None of the comments have been flaming, just thought I'd say that before it happened.

So regarding Shadowrift / Legendary (and I have not tried Legendary yet, but it's on my x-mas wishlist) comparisons...
I noticed that both have a lot of piles of stuff going on. Any game like this you kinda expect there to be player power and villian power cards. But the piles of stuff I'm talking about are how Shadowrift also has additions like the walls, villagers, and traveling villagers piles. These seemed like they really added to the mechanics and maybe even more so the theme quite well. Then Legendary mixes civilians in, has in a way one additional villain pile, has the objective/location pile. It seemed like both these games went beyond the expected with additional piles of stuff to help support both theme and mechanics. Not I realize that extra piles don't necessarily mean extra goodness. But in both these examples they seem to. And I was wondering what people who have played both thoughts were on that. Or any other comparisons one would like to draw.

I certainly like the Marvel theme more. And theme can sell me on a game. But mechanics keep me coming back for more. I'd happily own both these games based on what I know about them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Lalyman
France
Strasbourg
France
flag msg tools
I don't have much experience with Legendary, and am not an expert in deck-duilding, but Shadowrift happens to by number two prefered game (Sentinels of the Multivers being number 1) - so I will try a few comparisons.

In Legendary, your build your deck around card types, with the goal to chain them, each one making the next more powerful. Cards available for purchase at a given moment are random (HQ). The KO mechanism allow you to trim your deck, so that you can manage to keep a slim deck, but with more and more powerful card combos in it.
In Shadowrift, cards are always available (at least among the 8 decks chosen at the start). There are no "card types" benefiting from one another, but combos do exist, mostly as multiple player combos ("I give you a bonus"). There is no deck trimming : you don't want to buy too many cards. Deck efficiency comes from multiple card draws. Rather than buying more and more cards to gain better chained effect, while getting rid of the less effective cards, you try to make your deck effective by buying as few cards as possible.

Shadowrift Monsters are more aggressive than the villains and their servants in Legendary, and destroying them is vital.

The integration of theme is done in a very different way : In Shadowrift, each player has a character, those abilities are defined by the cards he bought. The cards each represent a special ability or equipment a character can learn or gain - or a new inhabitant of the village, for the Town deck.
Legendary doesn't care about "player character" : each card represents something in the marvel universe, not something about "you", you don't feel like you are watching a character grow.

Last, but not least : Shadowrift is fully co-op.

I'd say that Shadowrift (and it also works for Sentinels) has chosen mechanics that sustain the "role-playing" aspect of the theme, Legendary chose another path.
I feel that Legendary is first built around its mechanisms and competition between players, and that it sometimes conflicts with the theme itself.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Excellent explanation, thank you!

I forgot about Legendary having one true winner, and now that you bring it up, it sounds familiar. I think I remember thinking "no big deal, I'll just not tally up score at the end". But sometimes a game modification doesn't work as well as one would imagine. I agree that it's a potential conflict for a game to be coop and competitive (though I enjoy both independently). I do like how the coop / competitive mixes in a few games (mainly ones that are full on compeditive, but with a cooperative challenge that will hurt everyone if some people, usually those in the lead, don't pitch in), but the desire to have a winner just to have a winner isn't something I care about in a primarily cooperative experience.

Even though a player controls a character in Shadowrift, they way you combo off each other (which I agree is high in that game) makes it feel personally to me like you are all controlling part of a team. There is a characters deck in front of you that you are shuffling, sure. But it's very team focused. So if you were to take that team idea and have everyone shuffling and directly controlling a team entity didn't (on paper) sound that different to me. I understand that there are subtleties in the difference of these that could make a bigger actual difference than I imagined. But I think you hit on a big reason that I was comparing them in my mind.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Johnson
Canada
St.John's
Newfoundland
flag msg tools
designer
“Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman’s taken my life, But what does it matter, for all men must die, and I’ve tasted the Dornishman’s wife!”
badge
"Oak and iron guard me well, or else I'm dead and doomed to hell." - Andal proverb.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To me Legendary being called a coop is a misnomer. It's a competitive game with only one winner with the opportunity for all players to lose.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Itai Rosenbaum
Israel
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Allow me elaborate on Rune Age.

It plays 1-4 players and like Legendary, it's a scenario driven game. The box ships with 4 scenarios (plus 2 more in the expansion). What sets it apart is that each scenario is very, very different. Like previously mentioned - 1 is fully co-op: everyone is working together to fight off "The Cataclysm" (mechanically - an event deck with horrible things happening). 1 is semi co-op with all players fighting off the Dragon Lords, but the one who defeats the final Dragon Lord declared the winner. One is straight up competitive - last man standing. The final is more Euro-game-y with players competing to amass enough gold to build a monument. The expansion (which I have not played) adds a PvP element that's 1 vs. 2-3.

I think, given time, Legendary could achieve this level of diversity. The schemes have potential for this. It's nowhere near there yet, as the scheme don't change the very nature of the game - just the lose conditions and what your focus should be on (a timer, HQ management, City track management, Wound management, etc.). But, with a few well designed schemes - it is entirely possible to fundamentally change the core of the game from full co-op, full competition, semi co-op or even something new entirely.

Imagine this: a Galactus mastermind that can't be attacked directly. The scheme twists become "Heralds" which attach to villains in the city track (and significantly boost their power). Only once you defeat the 4 heralds can you make an attack on Galactus. But - once the four "Herald" scheme twists have been revealed, you only have 3 more twists left till the big guy comes and eats the planet. This places much more emphasis on co-op, as you have to work together to beat the Heralds, otherwise - you're toast.

The possibilities are endless.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nosnhoj - I see your point.

Itai - Very cool about the Rune Age engine supporting such robust changes! Now I'm wanting to play that one too

Also, very cool potential Galactus idea.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.