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Subject: A Question/Issue rss

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Gordon J
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I had an issue come up and needed help.

On my first turn, I took three Treat the Bite actions and got rid of the Bite Card pile, and then after a few more turns, I was able to keep the Bite pile at zero, then I would do one action, then the zombies, I would put the zombie in the bite pile, then do my turn, do one action, get rid of the one card, then zombies would go, draw one card, I'd put the zombie in the bite pile, then I would do one action and do Treat the Bite and get rid of the card. and on and on and on.

In one game I didn't have any attacks until the final assault, zombies breached two entrances, second game, no zombies breached as I did my trick from above.

Am I doing something wrong? Should it be that easy?
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Jack Bennett
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Thanks for playing!

One thing that's incorrect at the moment in the rules (and is being corrected, I'll upload new files shortly), is that zombie cards with a + icon that you put in the bite pile still cause you to have to draw another card.

On your first turn, if you take 3 actions to clear the bite pile, you'll also have to draw 3 cards, and possibly more if you draw zombies with + symbols. There's only 2 cards in the deck that don't have to be placed, so it should be difficult to get ahead of it so there's no zombies on the board. Then movement cards and the final assault will cause those zombies to attack, and if you haven't placed any barricades that could be quite a few breaches.

One rule we're considering, though, is that bite cards cause all the zombies of that color to attack. This would cause even more unprovoked attacks, however it starts to take away from the puzzle-y aspect of the card placement.

The other rule I'm considering is just not letting you place cards in the bite pile. Instead, the bite cards would just be a threat, but also, if you shotgun a zombie, it goes into the bite pile instead of dying. This, I think, would totally mess up your strategy, but I'm not sure I like it (and haven't much time to give it a good testing!).

Love hearing your thoughts! If you get a chance to play with either of those rules, let me know how it goes. I'll toss you in the new rulebook as a playtester!

Jack
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Gordon J
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I'll try those other rules.

But the problem I found, was if even I had to draw four zombie cards, I could usually distribute them around the four entrances enough that wouldn't have to worry about an attack, plus the fact if I empty the bite pile, during the zombie turn I could put at least one zombie card to the bite pile, which I could again then on my turn get rid of that card.

I also thought that maybe if you draw a bite card and there are no cards in the bite pile, you automatically get bitten. Or maybe the Woods character can only take each of the actions possible to him a round only once. Thus you could only barricade once, only Treat a Bite once.
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Jack Bennett
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patton55 wrote:
I'll try those other rules.

But the problem I found, was if even I had to draw four zombie cards, I could usually distribute them around the four entrances enough that wouldn't have to worry about an attack, plus the fact if I empty the bite pile, during the zombie turn I could put at least one zombie card to the bite pile, which I could again then on my turn get rid of that card.

I also thought that maybe if you draw a bite card and there are no cards in the bite pile, you automatically get bitten. Or maybe the Woods character can only take each of the actions possible to him a round only once. Thus you could only barricade once, only Treat a Bite once.


Good thoughts! I'll play around with them.

Another idea is that the bite pile works totally differently. This was the way it worked at first, but we changed it for who knows why.

You can place a zombie card in the bite pile in order to draw a replacement card. So it doesn't count as the zombie action, it just means you can put it there to avoid having the card you just drew. You draw a replacement and still have to place it. One extra card of each zombie has a + symbol on it (so it's 5 with, 5 without).

The bite cards are not colored and there are less of them (I think 5 instead of 6). They all have a + symbol. And when you draw them, if there are 3 or more cards in the bite pile, the bite "goes off."

This is a bit easier to work with, rules-wise, in that you don't have to deal with drawing a matching color yadda yadda. And it means the bite cards are a threat from the start (as you still start with 3 cards there and so you better get rid of at least one). But it still leaves in that you can ditch cards to the pile if you don't want them.

I think the problem was once you got less than 3 cards in the pile, testers just never put more cards in there. So the only issue you'd have is drawing 4 bite cards in one turn (as the first 3 would go in the pile, and the last would cause it to go off). But, with an increase in the + symbols (on every bite, and on half the zombies) it might mean that you really HAVE to if you have to avoid attacks.

Give it a whirl!

Oh, and one other thing has been changed and not updated in the current rules, although it's not related to the way you were winning:

When you use Jasper, you put the Jasper token on top of the zombie card with the + symbol. You ignore the plus. But then you can't place any more zombie cards at that entrance during that zombie turn. At the end of the zombie turn, before you start taking actions again, you move Jasper back to the rug.

Just thought you'd like to know, if you're playing.

Love to hear what you think!

Jack
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Gordon J
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Okay played another game using the new rule of if it had the + icon and put it to the bite pile I drew another card. A much closer game this time. Had 3 entrances breached with zombies knocking on the the 4th one, a scratcher who knocked the barricade down on the final play of the game. I only had one fight and that was the final assault at the end, but it was nail biter.

I'll try the Jasper rule in my next game--I like that idea.
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Jack Bennett
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Great!

Yeah, the Jasper rule does up the difficulty a bit as you only get one use out of him each turn, and you have to spend an action to move him back to an entrance for every use.

I do want more attacks happening during the game, at least a couple. Although part of the game really is just setting up for the final assault, I'd like to see more attacking happening mid-game. I don't get many during my playtests either, except if a Move cards makes them. An idea another tester sent me a few days ago was to make it so that when you shoot a zombie, the next zombie in the pile turns to attacking. I haven't tried this, but it could be an interesting kink in the "puzzle" aspect which would be fun.

The way I'm currently testing is this:
New Jasper rule above. Zombies with a + symbol placed in the bite pile still cause you to draw a card. An extra zombie of each color has a + symbol. One bite card of each color has a + symbol.

With the 6 extra + symbols, one use of Jasper per turn, and the bite pile still causing you to draw a new card on a +, there should be a lot more zombies attacking you.

With graduation looming and my final projects kicking into gear, though, I haven't had much testing time.

Your thoughts are invaluable!
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Gordon J
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Okay, I did my last game by the way you were play testing it, adding in the extra + cards and during the game, I actually had two attacks during the normal rounds--I lost the game because Woods got bit, after Rebecca zombie was in play. Definitely more tension with the extra + cards. But I would assume there won't usually be a lot of attacks as the player can really stack up the zombies in areas to prevent them from getting the attack requirement. But the move cards does screw that plan up. Would it be too nasty to put an extra move card or two in? That would really jumble the zombies up and mess with planning.
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Jack Bennett
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I have had some suggestions of just adding an "Attack!" card in there, but liked the puzzle-y aspect of how the attacks work. Have to think about it more. I'm actually OK with only a few attacks during the middle of the game, but only if it's working like I'd want.

If you avoid attacks mid-game, and just stack up 4 cards at all entrances without making any sets, then the final assault will be hell. The idea is that letting them attack when you're ready for it is the easiest way to get rid of them. Not sure how well that's showing through, though. It's possible the Final Assault could just be made harder so that people have to spend more time LETTING them attack early in order to get rid of them.

I'll play with it.
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Gordon J
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I really like the puzzle-y aspect of it. Keep that feel to the game (there is enough "go and kill 'em them zombie games" out there - this game has just enough of the kill em aspect without it being the main focus). I like trying to figure out if I place a scratcher at the fourth entrance where there are no barricades, that by the time it gets to his turn, he will move to the next entrance, but the turn will be over by then. I like trying to place the zombies so I don't get attacked. Don't think you would need an attack card, if it came to that, just add more Move cards, or add a symbol to some of the zombie cards that make certain ones move to a the next entrance. I'll keep playing with just your posted rules above and see how that works out.
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