Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
25 Posts

CO₂» Forums » Rules

Subject: Components limited? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rick Bynaker
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Are the game components meant to be a hard limit?

In our 5-player game last night (with 4 newbies) we ran out of CEPs and almost ran out of white cubes. We played that the CEPs were a hard limit so when we restocked the market we put the last one in and raised the price. When that was gone, we raised the price and the market was empty. This was the second to last player turn of the very last round of the game so it wasn't a problem for very long! But it still had a pretty important impact on final scores.

Thanks in advance.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Larkin
England
Brighton
Sussex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rbynaker wrote:
Are the game components meant to be a hard limit?

In our 5-player game last night (with 4 newbies) we ran out of CEPs and almost ran out of white cubes. We played that the CEPs were a hard limit so when we restocked the market we put the last one in and raised the price. When that was gone, we raised the price and the market was empty. This was the second to last player turn of the very last round of the game so it wasn't a problem for very long! But it still had a pretty important impact on final scores.

Thanks in advance.

We ran out of CEP's because we were playing the game wrong!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zark wrote:
rbynaker wrote:
Are the game components meant to be a hard limit?

In our 5-player game last night (with 4 newbies) we ran out of CEPs and almost ran out of white cubes. We played that the CEPs were a hard limit so when we restocked the market we put the last one in and raised the price. When that was gone, we raised the price and the market was empty. This was the second to last player turn of the very last round of the game so it wasn't a problem for very long! But it still had a pretty important impact on final scores.

Thanks in advance.

We ran out of CEP's because we were playing the game wrong!

This sounds likely for the OP as well. I've played the game many times and have never come close to running out of CEPs. Which rule had you been playing wrong?

OP: Where were all the CEPs? Were they in players' hands or in the regions? If they were in the regions, were you removing a CEP each time a fossil fuel plant was added? We're you adding CEPs to the regions only when replacing a fossil fuel plant (not each time a green plant was built)? Did you remember that players can pay CEPs for installations from regions they control?

If they were in players' hands, were you always always always taking CEPs from the market so that the price would go up? Were you always always always sending removed CEPs to the bank (except when selling) so the market price would stay high? Were you remembering to pay a CEP each time a project was installed (flipped)?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Bynaker
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
chally wrote:
OP: Where were all the CEPs? Were they in players' hands or in the regions? If they were in the regions, were you removing a CEP each time a fossil fuel plant was added? We're you adding CEPs to the regions only when replacing a fossil fuel plant (not each time a green plant was built)? Did you remember that players can pay CEPs for installations from regions they control?

I had 12 and was hoping to get 14 but there weren't enough left. We were pretty far up on the tech tracks so there were a lot of CEPs pulled out of the market each round because we were hitting the trigger spaces.

I had the bonus card that gave me bonus 2 points per CEP for the first 8 and I was playing a market strategy (if there is such a thing! I was one of the newbies) trying to pull CEPs out of the market as much as possible to drive the price up by the end of the game. Got it up to 8 with my inventory of 12 CEPs (yes, I was only buying 1 per turn!) but the player after me sold 1 bringing the market down to only 7. Still 7 x 12 x 0.5 = 42 points + 16 bonus points, just in CEPs.

chally wrote:
If they were in players' hands, were you always always always taking CEPs from the market so that the price would go up? Were you always always always sending removed CEPs to the bank (except when selling) so the market price would stay high? Were you remembering to pay a CEP each time a project was installed (flipped)?

Best I can recall we were playing all of the above rules correctly (from both paragraphs).

Final scores:

97 Player 1
106 Experienced/Teaching Player (John Weber below) (5 pts of tie breaker)
115 Player 3
106 Me (2 points of tie breaker)
106 Player 5 (4 pts of tie breaker)

So even best case I probably would have had to forgo 3 points to get 7 points if there were 2 more CEPs. But that may have actually led to a different question: Can the market ever go above 8? I don't think it necessarily would have since Player 5 would have played her turn slightly differently but it might be good to know for future plays.

The game did go through all of the rounds without triggering any of the early game-end conditions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vital Lacerda
Portugal
Oeiras
flag msg tools
designer
badge
2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow, that seems to be an exciting game.

It is possible, but a rare event, that CEPs end up during the 5 players game. In that case they are limited to the existing number.

I already talked with John, and he told me that you may skipped paying the second decade CEPs from the regions. That could be enough reason to make CEPs end up in your last turn.

The market cannot go above 8 or bellow 1.

Manipulating the market until the top price is very well played. But other players should take that opportunity to sell, get a lot of money (VPs), and try to stop you from getting all those points.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Weber
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I was in the same game with Rick and wound up second (on the three-way tiebreaker with five green plants built in five different regions, maxxing out my Company Goal card).

It's quite possible that we forgot to pull the CEPs from the regions for fossil fuel plant construction in the Supply phase of either Decade 3 or Decade 4. (However, I remember one Supply phase where I controlled one region, there was demand for a new plant, zero CEPs in the region, and I had to pay one out of my hand -- ouch!) Otherwise, I think all the CEP movements were done correctly, but you do have to be careful and not move too quickly and follow through step-by-step. As Rick mentioned, a number of times we hit the spaces on the Expertise track where you took CEPs from the market, plus there were more than the usual number of Forestation project install actions as well.

As for following Vital's advice, myself and the player to my left (who wound up winning the game, by the way) were the two players going directly ahead of Rick in the turn sequence and we would repeatedly sell a CEP when the price hit 4 or above, but it wasn't enough to stem off the exodus of purple chips from the Market to Rick's hand.

I also highly recommend following another tip from Vital for smooth play -- tracking each player's actions with markers on the icons at the two corners of the Board (only wish that this had been printed on all four sides of the Board to make this even easier).

Overall, it was a very interesting and engrossing game. It took awhile to complete, but the time flew by. I am now reassessing my thoughts that the game is best with 3 or 4, as I have now had a couple of interesting 5-player games as well. There always seems to be a bit more tension where the global PPM level rises into the 400 range before (hopefully) falling without too much ecological damage.

Next step on the agenda for me is to try out the game with the Arctic Expansion and possibly tackle the solitaire game as well, since my copy from Stronghold arrived in the mail last Friday (and Sunday's game with Rick and others was the maiden game played with that copy).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Larkin
England
Brighton
Sussex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think we forgot to make the region pay a CEP when a fossil fuel plant was built
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Andrew
Indonesia
Bandung
Jawa Barat
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rbynaker wrote:

I had 12 and was hoping to get 14 but there weren't enough left. We were pretty far up on the tech tracks so there were a lot of CEPs pulled out of the market each round because we were hitting the trigger spaces.


i'll ask just in case.. do you guys get expertise from all your scientist or just one per turn? and do you keep the CEP limit in all regions?

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Bynaker
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
John Weber wrote:
As for following Vital's advice, myself and the player to my left (who wound up winning the game, by the way) were the two players going directly ahead of Rick in the turn sequence and we would repeatedly sell a CEP when the price hit 4 or above, but it wasn't enough to stem off the exodus of purple chips from the Market to Rick's hand.

Yeah, you guys were great, driving the price down like that so I could almost always buy for $2.

I was telling John this morning, I think it may have just been a "perfect storm" of events. I think we were only short by 2 purple markers at the end which could have been caused by an earlier round mistake.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Bynaker
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
veenickz wrote:
i'll ask just in case.. do you guys get expertise from all your scientist or just one per turn?

One per turn. And there was at least one turn I forgot to do this. I did very little construction but did lots of tech and summits.

veenickz wrote:
and do you keep the CEP limit in all regions?

I'm not sure I understand the question but maybe John can address this. John?

Thanks to everyone for the responses. In particular it's great to have a ruling "straight from the horse's mouth"! I wish more game designers would participate as much.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Weber
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

CEP limits in all regions -- this is one I have missed checking on occasion, but I don't recall those CEP regions stacks getting very big: Once someone got control by building a plant, they were pulling the CEPs out for project installations.

I should add the person who won our game did something I haven't seen very often -- He had all four of his scientists in play very early on, by the second or third decade. So, there could be a new strategy to start thinking about as I have usually been content to play with just two or three the whole game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vital Lacerda
Portugal
Oeiras
flag msg tools
designer
badge
2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You must believe me when I say that most of the VPs does not come from the building of power plants. cool
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andreu Martínez Solé dubhekun
Spain
Vilafant
Catalunya
flag msg tools
It happened the same to us, and it was on a 3 players game.
One player played with the market accumulating a lot of CEPs for himself, and then at the last decade he managed to rise the price to 8, because no more CEPs were left at the bank. So He won the game doing nothing else than buying and selling CEPs, and proposing projects for money.

I revised the rules and I don't think we made nothing wrong. I've seen in other games that in the rules clarify what happens when tokkens are gone. Theres'nt any mention about that in this game. I don't know what to do, but that player found an exploit, I think.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vital Lacerda
Portugal
Oeiras
flag msg tools
designer
badge
2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The components are limited.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andreu Martínez Solé dubhekun
Spain
Vilafant
Catalunya
flag msg tools
newrev wrote:
The components are limited.


Where it says that? I think that We could use a coin on a CEP to mark it with a number of CEPs value, and return the change to the bank. Maybe it is a home rule, but the market mechanic seems too strange whith limited CEPs to me.

Thank you to clarify that. And conglaturations for a great game and theme.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Robison
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mb
You are clear that the pieces are limited, however what happens mechanically in the game when the bank and market are both empty? Every time the "STOP" symbol is visible, you pause the game, raise the price of the CEPS by one and add two more to the market from the bank. After completing this maneuver with an empty bank, "STOP" is visible again and you end up repeating the procedure until the cost of CEPS caps out at 8. Is this correct, or is there a different mechanic?

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vital Lacerda
Portugal
Oeiras
flag msg tools
designer
badge
2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Matthew,
We are talking here about a rare situation. But what happens is that the market does not rise anymore until he receives new CEPs from the bank. The procedure should be, refill the market then rise the price. If the market is not refilled you don't increase the price.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Robison
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mb
(This actually happened in our second game.) Should we assume then, in this case, that as soon as a CEP is spent and returned to the empty bank, it is automatically placed on the market and the CEP price is increased by one?

Thank you for your further clarification.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vital Lacerda
Portugal
Oeiras
flag msg tools
designer
badge
2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
matthewr wrote:
(This actually happened in our second game.) Should we assume then, in this case, that as soon as a CEP is spent and returned to the empty bank, it is automatically placed on the market and the CEP price is increased by one?

Thank you for your further clarification.


Two, you need two to refill the market.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Larkin
England
Brighton
Sussex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
newrev wrote:
Hi Matthew,
We are talking here about a rare situation.


Maybe just group think, but it has happened in my last two games
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Next Game Please
England
Frome
Somerset
flag msg tools
Find a Friend
badge
Next Game Please
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This happened in my last game and has always been short in group games.

I forgot, though (missed it in the rules), that you can take CEP's from the regions you control in order to flip projects.

The real market for CEP's is a serious business; companies make a lot of money selling excess permits. It surprised me, and it's good to see this mechanism repeated in the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Francisco
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I screwed up the paying a CEP for the dirty power plants tonight. I'm so disappointed. From what we played, I know that I really enjoyed it. I think CO2 is much more intuitive to play than Vinhos.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
cabel dawson
United States
Scotts Valley
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So we were definitely not playing wrong. But we emptied that market. No one has actually answered what happens I that case
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Strait
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Having a hard cap on CEPs is more like RL, "release valve" provisions in various statutes notwithstanding.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.