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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: How to handle inexact movement that should be exact rss

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David Pontier
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Because of the inaccuracies of the movement templates and accidentally bumping pieces, do you make house rules when movement should result in one thing, but then doesn’t?

For example, if you set up ships in a tight formation and give them all the same movement, they should end up in a tight formation without touching after the movement, but if you make a slight mistake or bump a ship, they might end up touching. Is that just “Tough luck” on the player, or do you allow him to adjust his ships so they aren’t touching.

Another example (and this might be a rules question) what if a TIE crashed into the back of you, is then Ionized, and you move forward 1? When bases of ships are touching, it is implied that they are over lapping and existing in the same space, but above or below each other. So if both ships then move forward 1 space, they should still be overlapping. Now, because the TIE in back will likely not be placed “exactly” touching the ship in front of him, when you move him forward 1 (assuming the ship in front has already moved) he probably won’t be touching the ship in front of him. But shouldn’t he still be considered to be overlapping, and thus lose his action again?

And there are other instances also where a ship is barely in the firing arc, but both players agree that it is in the firing arc. Then in the next movement both ships execute identical maneuvers and now because of the inexactness of the movement, the first ship is now outside the firing arc when nothing should have changed. Or a ship is in range one turn, and after identical movements, it isn’t range the second turn, or perhaps the range has changed.

How have you guys handled this?
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Blorb Plorbst
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Playing Wings of War: Miniatures, we just consider it the inexactness of piloting a thing that flies. Effects of chaos and random muscle twitches can result in slight variations.

Practically, there's no way for every maneuver to be completed with machine like precision and if anyone wants to complain about missing or getting hit by the difference of a fraction of an inch, tell them they need to fly better.
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Andy Pelton
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Piqsid wrote:

Another example (and this might be a rules question) what if a TIE crashed into the back of you, is then Ionized, and you move forward 1? When bases of ships are touching, it is implied that they are over lapping and existing in the same space, but above or below each other. So if both ships then move forward 1 space, they should still be overlapping. Now, because the TIE in back will likely not be placed “exactly” touching the ship in front of him, when you move him forward 1 (assuming the ship in front has already moved) he probably won’t be touching the ship in front of him. But shouldn’t he still be considered to be overlapping, and thus lose his action again?

How have you guys handled this?


In that situation where a ship collides with the back of another ship so the bases are touching.

In the next turn if both ships make the same maneuver so that are touching again, there is no penalty for this, the trailing ship will not lose an action as it has not overlapped a base this round.

This is in the FAQ.

X-Wing FAQ wrote:
Q: Can two ships be considered touching if neither ship overlapped the other ship during this round?
A: No.


hope this helps
 
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Duke Of Lizards
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This can annoy me slightly sometimes, particularly the movements that go through another ship. We've taken to using the 1 forward template to mark location, removing the ship that was in the way, executing the move, and then replacing the moved ship. It's far from exact, which is fine for play with friends, but how are these things handled in a tournament setting?
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Ethan McKinney
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Play on a square grid, the way that the game was designed.
 
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clive holland
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This is a game lads, not an exact science, come on if things accidentally touch or are not moved to the precise .0001mm give them a tweak.
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Jason Miceli
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elbmc1969 wrote:
Play on a square grid, the way that the game was designed.


?? Did I miss something? Designed as a square grid based game? I saw a variant to this effect, but don't see how it was ever designed to be that way...

me
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Thiago Aranha
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I can't imagine how it is possible to play this game in a competitive non-friendly environment (and for that matter why anybody would want to do such a thing). It just seems like a very contradictory system where you can never be really precise about your positioning, and yet the system demands precision when arbitrating results. There's no way to resolve this other than not caring about it in a friendly manner.
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Jeffrey Smith
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Loophole Master wrote:
I can't imagine how it is possible to play this game in a competitive non-friendly environment (and for that matter why anybody would want to do such a thing). It just seems like a very contradictory system where you can never be really precise about your positioning, and yet the system demands precision when arbitrating results. There's no way to resolve this other than not caring about it in a friendly manner.

I agree. And yet thousands of people will be competing for a free, pre-release Falcon at the many Kessel Run events in mid December. I wonder how many fist fights will break out over someone accidentally nudging their X Wing a fraction of an inch. shake
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Thomas Petersen
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I've used Duke's technique as well with the 1 template. I think of it the same as in golf. Golfers are allowed to place a marker on the green behind their ball and pick it up - even if they aren't blocking some else's putt.

I've used the 1 template to move one ship to help check for range too rather than knock three other ships out of their very precise and exact positions.
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yeah the 1 template is handy for that, also is making your bases grippier.

I am very lax with movement but 1 thing that always flies at my house, if someone can shoot a target that is just in range 3, then some models gets bumped and the original target is out of range to shoot back, they are allowed the shot.
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Marcel van der pol
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Quote:
I can't imagine how it is possible to play this game in a competitive non-friendly environment (and for that matter why anybody would want to do such a thing). It just seems like a very contradictory system where you can never be really precise about your positioning, and yet the system demands precision when arbitrating results. There's no way to resolve this other than not caring about it in a friendly manner.


Its more or less the same problem that exists for Miniature wargames everywhere. Warhammer 40k for example has this as it has no movement trays and infantry miniatures are "single" models (unlike fantasy where they usually fight in a close formation). Yes, some arguements and discussions do exists on tournaments, but its part of the reason why the "tournament" score is based on more than just game results. Friendliness and sportsmanship are a part of it as well.

There is no "best" method for solving this though; inexactness is part of the game despite efforts to make it as exact as possible.
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Jay K
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We tend to keep it reasonably relaxed. However, toying with turning the surface into 6 inch grids for three reasons.

Help with the accuracy
Make it more playable for my 8 yr old and
putting together some AI which would need the grid to understand relative positions.
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Paul DeStefano
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elbmc1969 wrote:
Play on a square grid, the way that the game was designed.


First - I've never heard this, even speaking with the FFG guys. Where did you get this idea?

And second, after near-misses, the game falls off grid. This is important as at the end of the fight, things are more chaotic and its not so easy to eyeball everything.
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Scott M.
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Geosphere wrote:
elbmc1969 wrote:
Play on a square grid, the way that the game was designed.


First - I've never heard this, even speaking with the FFG guys. Where did you get this idea?

And second, after near-misses, the game falls off grid. This is important as at the end of the fight, things are more chaotic and its not so easy to eyeball everything.


Never was intended as squares grid game..
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I don't play this and can't comment on it specifically, however back in the day when I used to play Mage Knight (the original Clix game, not the recent board game of the same name), it was quite common for people to make assertions, e.g. "I'm putting this guy so he's just barely outside of range of that dude".

If things got bumped or shifted a bit in play (e.g. you had to pick pieces up if they were dealt damage so you could rotate their base) so that the original assertion was no longer true, but should have been, then it was played as if the assertion was still true.
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Marcel van der pol
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Quote:
I don't play this and can't comment on it specifically, however back in the day when I used to play Mage Knight (the original Clix game, not the recent board game of the same name), it was quite common for people to make assertions, e.g. "I'm putting this guy so he's just barely outside of range of that dude".


I think that Games Workshop finally did away with the "you cannot measure anything beforehand" rule in the game with the advent of 6th edition. You are now able to measure anything in the game at any time; this makes sure that there is more emphasis on tactics and less on how good you as a general are at guessing distances. However, this did take quite some time....

I personally like being able to measure stuff, so there is no "guessing" of distances. In the case of X-Wing, putting templates on the table in the planning phase means you could see where your ship ends up. Ofcourse, your opponent can see you do this, so it might give away your plan (or could be used to bluff your opponent). "Do I know that you know that I know that ..."
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Michael Taylor
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Piqsid wrote:
Because of the inaccuracies of the movement templates and accidentally bumping pieces, do you make house rules when movement should result in one thing, but then doesn’t?


http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/82794/star-wars-x-wing-hex...

Works MUCH better. But I recommend getting a 2' hex-map because of all the counters and bumping that occurs anyway.
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Piqsid wrote:
How have you guys handled this?


If it's that important to you, try getting your table to buy into movement on a hex-grid and then come to an agreement about how each maneuver gauge translates into hex movement.

Otherwise, watch folks make their moves and if they are careful about executing moves properly, give them the benefit of the doubt and let the chips fall where they may.
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marcelvdpol wrote:
I personally like being able to measure stuff, so there is no "guessing" of distances. In the case of X-Wing, putting templates on the table in the planning phase means you could see where your ship ends up. Ofcourse, your opponent can see you do this, so it might give away your plan (or could be used to bluff your opponent). "Do I know that you know that I know that ..."


I don't like pre-measuring stuff.

1) Just more opportunities for things to get bumped or knocked over.
2) It's a drag on play since there's always that guy (or two) who measures everything—even if it has nothing to with their craft.
3) It just invites arguments after all movement is completed: "Hey, I measured it all out and I totally had you..."

I do like the idea of a light, 6" grid that overlays the playing field. That should give the "pre-measure" fans a good guide they can eyeball manuevers with
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John Freybeck
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If your entire strategy completely relies on the exact placement of your ships and their bases, and the flawless execution of every single maneuver and movement template, you are already loosing the game.

Much of what is good about this game is the non-precise nature inherent in its design and the intent behind that design. This game and how movements are judged accurate should be handled no differently then a baseball game with umpires and a football game with referees; All players adhere to a standard set of rules, submit their grievances to a judge, and try to play honorably in the spirt of sportsmanship. If you become overly concerned with the minutia of exactitude, you miss the entire point of the game.
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J Chav
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Revive this one a bit.

If you are flying two ships in a column from the start and have the one in the back bump so they are touching. If the one in back is a lower pilot skill and you play a 1 forward would it be able to leap frog the one in front and be okay?
 
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Jon Dennis
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No, the plastic nubs in front and back get in the way.
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Michael Taylor
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Piqsid wrote:
Because of the inaccuracies of the movement templates and accidentally bumping pieces, do you make house rules when movement should result in one thing, but then doesn’t?

How have you guys handled this?


http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/86817/hex-wing
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/82794/star-wars-x-wing...
 
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Jeff Wilder

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Generally speaking, I'm very relaxed and steady and can move my ships quickly and easily without bumping when playing casual games. (I also play on a yoga mat with weighted bases, so it takes a significant jarring to move ships.)

I played in my first official tournament a couple of weeks ago, and (1) I was nervous, and (2) we were playing on paper (which sucks). I bumped things several times, moving ships with some significance.

In each case, I gave my opponent final word on positioning.

I think that's the best way to encourage both friendliness and fairness, in a game that has built-in expectations of inexactness: if the inexactness is your fault, defer to the opponent for the final word on positioning.

As far as movement goes -- being fully socketed into the template, et cetera -- I like to see it as exact as possible, but given the inexact nature of the game, I only worry about it if it's providing an obvious positioning advantage to someone. (If it ends up providing an unforeseen positioning advantage later in the game, that's no big deal: it could just as easily have gone "against" as "for" in those cases.)

Oh, and to address a more direct question: as long as the movement is "straight" or "turn," I have no problem with my opponent "placing" ships in formation. On banks, I ask that they be moved separately and judged for overlap pretty strictly. Banks are intentionally formation-wrecking in the game.
 
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