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Subject: halflings ability rss

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jay cutler
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halflings gain victory points when:
- pay cubes to spades (1 point for each spade)
- using the special action on the board (1 or 2 victory points)
- using the special action on the card bonus (1 victory point)
- getting spades from the tiles turn (even when it can not use them to terraforming)

right?
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Jonathan Ramundi
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Re: halfligs ability
As far as I know (because this is what I was told) they gain victory points any time they gain spades for any reason.
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Chris Linneman
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Re: halfligs ability
Also from building their stronghold (because it gives them 3 spades). The short answer is they get VPs every time they get spades.
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Ben
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Re: halfligs ability
bodybuilder wrote:
- getting spades from the tiles turn (even when it can not use them to terraforming)

You can always use spades from the scoring tiles for terraforming. You just terriform an adjacent space to some other type of terrain (not necessarily your home terrain).

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I would think that if the Halflings player refused to terriform any space (not even sure you're allowed to refuse), the Halflings would not get the points because they Halflings did not use the spade they recieved.
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jay cutler
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Re: halfligs ability
then paying 9 cubes for terraforming a hexagon with 3 spades away, they earn 3 victory points. right?

if at the end of round they earn 1 spade but can not use it then lose it, however, they earn 1 point victory. right?
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Garry Rice
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Re: halfligs ability
bodybuilder wrote:
then paying 9 cubes for terraforming a hexagon with 3 spades away, they earn 3 victory points. right?

if at the end of round they earn 1 spade but can not use it then lose it, however, they earn 1 point victory. right?


I'm with Ben - I don't think so...I think you get a point every time you USE a spade. If you don't use a spade, you don't get the points.

Hmmm...maybe I'm wrong...looking at the rule book, it says you get a point every time you GET a spade. Doesn't say you have to use it...
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Ben
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Re: halfligs ability
bodybuilder wrote:
if at the end of round they earn 1 spade but can not use it then lose it, however, they earn 1 point victory. right?

Can you think of a situation where they can't use it? Hypothetically, it might be possible for a race with no shipping to get completely boxed in by opponents & water, but I've never seen anything close to that actually happen.

I just want to make sure you understand that as long as there is any empty hex that is indirectly adjacent to one of your structures, you can (and I think must) apply the free spades.
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Ben
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Re: halfligs ability
garry_rice wrote:
bodybuilder wrote:
then paying 9 cubes for terraforming a hexagon with 3 spades away, they earn 3 victory points. right?

if at the end of round they earn 1 spade but can not use it then lose it, however, they earn 1 point victory. right?


I'm with Ben - I don't think so...I think you get a point every time you USE a spade. If you don't use a spade, you don't get the points.

Hmmm...maybe I'm wrong...looking at the rule book, it says you get a point every time you GET a spade. Doesn't say you have to use it...

Yeah, I'm a little confused now too. I don't think you can buy spades without using them. I don't think you're allowed to refuse to use spades you get from the scoring tiles (I'm not 100% sure). So the only question is whether you "get" a spade that you can't possibly apply. I think the answer is probably yes.

My first post above didn't account for the possibility that you actually couldn't use it. It didn't seem possible. I assumed the poster was misunderstanding a rule and did not realize that players can (and must?) partially terraform when recieving bonus spades.

But since (as my immediate post above indicates) I suppose it is hypothetically possible, I would guess that you "get" the spades first and then apply them if possible.
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Chris Linneman
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Re: halfligs ability
Yeah, it seems pretty clear from the rules to me that the Halflings get the VPs for earning the spade, not for using it.
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jay cutler
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Re: halfligs ability
chally wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
bodybuilder wrote:
then paying 9 cubes for terraforming a hexagon with 3 spades away, they earn 3 victory points. right?

if at the end of round they earn 1 spade but can not use it then lose it, however, they earn 1 point victory. right?


I'm with Ben - I don't think so...I think you get a point every time you USE a spade. If you don't use a spade, you don't get the points.

Hmmm...maybe I'm wrong...looking at the rule book, it says you get a point every time you GET a spade. Doesn't say you have to use it...

Yeah, I'm a little confused now too. I don't think you can buy spades without using them. I don't think you're allowed to refuse to use spades you get from the scoring tiles (I'm not 100% sure). So the only question is whether you "get" a spade that you can't possibly apply. I think the answer is probably yes.

My first post above didn't account for the possibility that you actually couldn't use it. It didn't seem possible. I assumed the poster was misunderstanding a rule and did not realize that players can (and must?) partially terraform when recieving bonus spades.

But since (as my immediate post above indicates) I suppose it is hypothetically possible, I would guess that you "get" the spades first and then apply them if possible.


if at the end of the turn I get 1 spade, but I can not use it, because adjacent to my building there are hexes that require 2 or 3 spades, the spade that I have gained is lost! in this case, halfiligs earn 1 point victory?
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Ben
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Re: halfligs ability
bodybuilder wrote:
chally wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
bodybuilder wrote:
then paying 9 cubes for terraforming a hexagon with 3 spades away, they earn 3 victory points. right?

if at the end of round they earn 1 spade but can not use it then lose it, however, they earn 1 point victory. right?


I'm with Ben - I don't think so...I think you get a point every time you USE a spade. If you don't use a spade, you don't get the points.

Hmmm...maybe I'm wrong...looking at the rule book, it says you get a point every time you GET a spade. Doesn't say you have to use it...

Yeah, I'm a little confused now too. I don't think you can buy spades without using them. I don't think you're allowed to refuse to use spades you get from the scoring tiles (I'm not 100% sure). So the only question is whether you "get" a spade that you can't possibly apply. I think the answer is probably yes.

My first post above didn't account for the possibility that you actually couldn't use it. It didn't seem possible. I assumed the poster was misunderstanding a rule and did not realize that players can (and must?) partially terraform when recieving bonus spades.

But since (as my immediate post above indicates) I suppose it is hypothetically possible, I would guess that you "get" the spades first and then apply them if possible.


if at the end of the turn I get 1 spade, but I can not use it, because adjacent to my building there are hexes that require 2 or 3 spades, the spade that I have gained is lost! in this case, halfiligs earn 1 point victory?

That's wrong (which is why I kept asking). You DO use it. You just don't turn it into your home terrain. You MUST turn it into something else.
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Chris Linneman
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Re: halfligs ability
Yeah, that's why it's shown as a wheel, not as a chart. Makes it really easy to see not only the costs of terraforming to your home terrain but the costs of getting to the intervening terrain types as well.

Partial terraforming is important, especially when you want to grab a hex that is also close to your neighbour before they do. For example, if I am halflings and you are witches, I'd like to make those lakes into swamps before you can turn them into forests, even if I can't turn them all the way into farmland.
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Kris Moulton
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Re: halfligs ability
QBert80 wrote:
Yeah, it seems pretty clear from the rules to me that the Halflings get the VPs for earning the spade, not for using it.


Interestingly, this came up in the last game I played. It was a tight 5 player game and the halflings received several spades in the round with the bonus tile for vp's when you get spades. The Halfling ability is clear that you just have to get the spades to get the points but the rules say about the bonus tile "Action phase: Get 2 additional Victory points for each Spade when using them."

I'm not sure if this is just badly worded or if it's actually meant to be different from the Halfling's ability. The halfling's were boxed in at this point and could only terraform one spot so we weren't sure whether to award the points for getting the spades or if he had to use them.

All in all I think the rules are pretty great. I've found the answer to pretty much every question I've had in there.
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Dominic Lauke
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Re: halfligs ability
So in german rules it stated:

Quote:
Als Halbling bekommst du für jeden Spaten, den du einsetzt,
zusätzlich 1 Punkt (unabhängig davon, wie du den Spaten erhalten hast).


And this means you have to terraform with the spades to get vp.
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jay cutler
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Re: halfligs ability
then I can also terraform land in a color different from mine? but this action should do it only in rare cases!
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Chris Linneman
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You can terraform part way. Especially with fewer players, you will often do this so you don't waste spades and/or to make it more difficult for your opponent(s) to grab those spaces.

What you can't do is, say, use 2 spades to terraform 2 spaces each one step unless you are terraforming them into your home terrain. You have to spend all your spades from a given action on one space until it is your home terrain before spending the remainder on a different space. However, if the spades you have are insufficient to transform a space to your home terrain, you may transform it as far as the spades you have allow.
 
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Mark Buckley
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The (one) game we played, the halflings just ran away with it - they got their spade cost to 1 quickly and thereafter just racked up many points each turn. I think the final score was something like halflings 120+, everyone else about 70-80. Not sure what we could have done to stop it, but we have only played once so maybe it was a skewed result.
 
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Ben
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hemulen wrote:
I think the final score was something like halflings 120+, everyone else about 70-80.

As a general rule of thumb, winning scores should be ~120. So it sounds like the Halflings player played well and the rest of you did not score very efficiently (perfectly understandable for a first game).

Terra Mystica is not a game where one can easily "stop" a player who is doing well. But that also means it is hard for other players to stop you from doing well. Your best chance at winning is to maximize your own score. If that also coincides with getting in an opponent's way, all the better.
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Jimmy Okolica
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[q="chally"Terra Mystica is not a game where one can easily "stop" a player who is doing well. But that also means it is hard for other players to stop you from doing well. Your best chance at winning is to maximize your own score. If that also coincides with getting in an opponent's way, all the better. [/q]

I played another 2-player game of this last night (and I'm actually beginning to like it at that player count blush) and came to the same conclusion. My gf had the dwarves and even with (limited) dummy players, there was no way to reign her in. I had the Aethers (? -- the race without a special power) and just focused on my game. We were both shocked at the end of the game when did I not only win the game, but won by a sizable margin (almost 20 points -- our largest spread to date). I ended up winning all 4 cults and picking up the biggest network by expanding my shipping to 2 (and was ready to expand to 3 if necessary). She had at least a 20 point lead during most of the game and was constantly complaining that she didn't have enough dwellings (since they were all on the board for the last 2 or 3 turns).
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Mark Buckley
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chally wrote:
hemulen wrote:
I think the final score was something like halflings 120+, everyone else about 70-80.

As a general rule of thumb, winning scores should be ~120. So it sounds like the Halflings player played well and the rest of you did not score very efficiently (perfectly understandable for a first game).

Terra Mystica is not a game where one can easily "stop" a player who is doing well. But that also means it is hard for other players to stop you from doing well. Your best chance at winning is to maximize your own score. If that also coincides with getting in an opponent's way, all the better.


Sure I can believe that is the case. One other player was the Giants and had a really hard time getting going.
 
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Nick Knutsen
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Jordan Kane wrote:
So in german rules it stated:

Quote:
Als Halbling bekommst du für jeden Spaten, den du einsetzt,
zusätzlich 1 Punkt (unabhängig davon, wie du den Spaten erhalten hast).


And this means you have to terraform with the spades to get vp.


The same goes for the Alchemists' Stronghold ability to get two Power for each Spade used.
 
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