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Elder Sign» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can I use Find Gate/Bind Monster immediately after receiving them? rss

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Michael Redston
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1. I buy a spell at the entrance, and it's Find Gate/Bind Monster. Can I use it immediately?
2. I succeed at an adventure, and rewarded with a spell which is Find Gate/Bind Monster. Can I use it immediately?
 
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Nathan Kline

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I believe your turn is over at that point and you must wait until your next to use the acquired item.
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William Garramone
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I think that one is able to cast spells 'after the dice are rolled'. So the question is, 'After rolling the dice to complete a task / adventure, can I then cast a spell?'
 
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Michael Redston
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Keesvanloomacklin wrote:
I think that one is able to cast spells 'after the dice are rolled'. So the question is, 'After rolling the dice to complete a task / adventure, can I then cast a spell?'

What? That isn't a question at all. Of course you can. Otherwise classic lock spells couldn't be used. The question is whether you can cast spells (the two above+the ones that refill sanity/stamina) of which you got as a reward for completing an adventure, or you bought them at the entrance, or got them at lost and found at the same turn in which you got them.
 
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Mark L
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From memory, I think spells can technically only be used just after you roll the dice.

So you wouldn't be able to immediately use one you just obtained, because you have either not rolled the dice that turn (if you bought it at the entrance) or have passed the dice-rolling phase of your turn and moved on to rewards/penalties.
 
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Michael Redston
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Fact of the matter is, Healing Stone (unique item) reads "Discard before rolling to fully restore your Stamina and Stamina." (Which does begs the question if you can use it without attempting an adventure.) Flute of the Outer Gods (unique items) does read "Discard after rolling to defeat one monster." But Bind Monster says nothing about rolling: "Discard to defeat 1 monster." Find Gate, Heal and Cloud Memory also don't mention the word "rolling" which does lead me to believe they can be used immediately.

Edit: Alright, I sent FFG an email.
 
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Mark L
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Good luck getting a reply out of them...

(I don't think they generally reply to rules questions, though it is possible if they get enough of them they'll put up an updated FAQ. Still, no harm in trying.)

But my reply was about the two spells you initially asked about, Bind Monster and Find Gate. As spells, I believe they are to be used immediately after rolling unless stated otherwise (though I could be wrong about that!), and the same would apply to Heal and Cloud Memory. Unique items usually state on the card when they can be used.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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"Using Items, Clues, Spells, and Allies
A player may use only his items, clues, spells, and
allies during his own turn; he cannot use them
during another player’s turn." (Revised, p. 13)

Since Clock Phase is still part of a player's turn, you could buy or gain a spell during the Resolution Phase and cast it then or Clock Phase, whichever you like, but your turn isn't over after the Resolution Phase.
 
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Michael Redston
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Dam the Man wrote:
Since Clock Phase is still part of a player's turn, you could buy or gain a spell during the Resolution Phase and cast it then or Clock Phase, whichever you like, but your turn isn't over after the Resolution Phase.

Really hope that's true. I'm inclined agree, as unlike the unique items I was talking about earlier, which specifically state when you can use them, those spells do not.
 
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Mark L
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Dam the Man wrote:
"Using Items, Clues, Spells, and Allies
A player may use only his items, clues, spells, and
allies during his own turn; he cannot use them
during another player’s turn." (Revised, p. 13)

Since Clock Phase is still part of a player's turn, you could buy or gain a spell during the Resolution Phase and cast it then or Clock Phase, whichever you like, but your turn isn't over after the Resolution Phase.

That rule is simply pointing out that you can't use them in someone else's turn, only in your own. It doesn't say anything about when in your turn you can use them.

kroen wrote:
I'm inclined agree, as unlike the unique items I was talking about earlier, which specifically state when you can use them, those spells do not.

I still think the reason the spells don't say when you can use them is because it's covered in the rules -- though admittedly not very clearly, as the rule which states you cast spells after rolling the dice could be read as only applying to spells which secure dice.

Nevertheless, I would interpret this as applying to all spells unless there's a statement to the contrary. There's no similar rule about items, which is why they say on the card when they can be used.

Of course this is just my interpretation ... the curse of Elder Sign's badly written rules strikes again!
 
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Michael Redston
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Well I hope FFG do send me an answer, but until then I will play it like I have always played it (that you can't). In these instances it's important to remember the Golden Rule of Mythos board game: "If faced with two interpretations to a rule, choose the one that would harm the players the most."
 
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Michael Redston
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Wow, that was fast! I got an asnwer
Chris Hosch wrote:
1. After succeeding at an adventure, I'm rewarded with a spell, which happens to be Bind Monster/Find Gate/Heal/Cloud Memory. Can I cast it immediately?
A player's turn does not end until he advances the clock. Unless specific timing is stated on the card, an item or spell can be used at any time during a player's own turn. Therefore, yes, you can use those spells after receiving them as reward for succeeding at an adventure.

Note, however, that Bind Monster changed slightly in the Revised Edition of the game. It now states: "After rolling, discard to defeat 1 monster." Therefore, this spell can now only be used immediately after rolling your dice pool.

1.2. And if I got the spell buy purchasing it at the entrance, or if I've won it by rolling for the lost & found, is the answer different? Can I use it immediately?
No, the same rule applies. Your turn doesn't end until you advance the clock, so if you get one of those spells at the entrance you may use them during that same turn, unless it has specific timing listed on the card.

2. Healing Stone reads "Discard before rolling". Does that mean I can only use it if I attempt an adventure? I can't use it if I decide to purchase something on the entrance?
Yes, Healing Stone (or any other card with this type of timing) can only be used immediately before rolling your dice pool. You cannot use it while on the entrance because you will not be rolling your dice pool that turn.

I actually had no idea the revised edition had an errata'd card. I thought the only different was the rulebook. But it's really good to know I can use Find Gate/Heal/Cloud Memory immediately.
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Rauli Kettunen
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Chris Hosch wrote:
A player's turn does not end until he advances the clock.


Score one (another) for me cool .
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