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Subject: Managing Maneuvers rss

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K AM
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Hello,

I've played a number of games of Mythic Battles and love it. Over the course of these games, the core game mechanic of having activations governed by the Maneuver cards(deck) was apparent and needs to be managed.

On the first turn, this takes the form of what you can activate, or whether you have to expend an art of war card to search for a card. However, you start with 7 cards, and then draw 10, so you have a relatively broad selection.

However, on the 2nd turn, things are likely to be significantly different. You may have lost units, or have a greater need to use a specific unit immediately. Additionally, if you've needed to use reinforcements you're likely to have few cards left in hand or art of war on the table. And then finally, you only draw 3 cards.

Naturally, as you have less units this problem gets worse, so on your second shuffle heading into turn 3, the odds of getting a "dead" hand increase.

I'm guessing that everyone who has played has experienced the limitation this presents, and that is an interesting part of the game as I see it. However, in a recent game (under sessions Husband vs wife), I had a very protracted stall due to this, where I basically was out of position, had the wrong cards, and had no art of war to search.

That was a bit frustrating, because it felt as if I was just waiting, and watching my opponent take actions and destroy my army. This was an unusual occurrence, but all of this is leading up to asking--what are some ways that players can mitigate this, or plan ahead better so that it doesn't occur.

According to the rules you must activate one unit on your turn unless you have no maneuver cards, so you don't have total control over what you keep in your hand. You can discard 3 to draw 2, in order to seed cards you know you will need later at the bottom of your deck. And of course, you can no use Art of War cards. So, there are tools.

I'm an impatient player--I want to play my cards/units/etc rather than intentionally NOT play them because I MIGHT have a bad draw later on. Additionally, not using your resources is its own issue (lost opportunity).

Anyway, I'm curious if others have had any similar problems managing activations, and what you think is a good way to mitigate this or manage it better.

Thanks,
KAM
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David S
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KAM1138 wrote:

I'm an impatient player--I want to play my cards/units/etc rather than intentionally NOT play them because I MIGHT have a bad draw later on. Additionally, not using your resources is its own issue (lost opportunity).


I believe you've addressed your own issue, here. Be a little more patient and plan ahead, especially now that you understand that a lack of planning (or patience) can, in fact, lead to a bad draw later in the game.

KAM1138 wrote:

Anyway, I'm curious if others have had any similar problems managing activations, and what you think is a good way to mitigate this or manage it better.

Thanks,
KAM


I haven't encountered this problem, but I'm not an impatient player. I would advise being a little more calculating and a little less rash/brazen/impatient, and you may find that you have better results.

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K AM
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Zythal wrote:
KAM1138 wrote:

I'm an impatient player--I want to play my cards/units/etc rather than intentionally NOT play them because I MIGHT have a bad draw later on. Additionally, not using your resources is its own issue (lost opportunity).


I believe you've addressed your own issue, here. Be a little more patient and plan ahead, especially now that you understand that a lack of planning (or patience) can, in fact, lead to a bad draw later in the game.

KAM1138 wrote:

Anyway, I'm curious if others have had any similar problems managing activations, and what you think is a good way to mitigate this or manage it better.

Thanks,
KAM


I haven't encountered this problem, but I'm not an impatient player. I would advise being a little more calculating and a little less rash/brazen/impatient, and you may find that you have better results.



So, I'm rash AND Brazen too...jeeze take it easy on me. To clarify, my impatience took the form of playing Cerberus, which did lead to losing the game, but it doesn't extend so far as to have me randomly activating things just because I can.

Further, my impatience doesn't CREATE the basic reality that as you lose units, you are less likely to draw maneuver cards for units that remain. That's an inherent part of the game...unless you don't lose units. If so...then remind me never to play you. Nor does my impatience affect the fact that you start with 3 (plus whatever is retained...unlikely to be 7) cards on turn 2 vs 10 on turn one.


It is also likely that opposing units are engaged at the start of Turn 2, and thus the need to activate specific units is greater. In this situation, the luck of that 2nd Turn draw can have a major effect on the game.

In the example I mentioned, my opponent and I were in similar situations (I think I actually had more units), and both ended up with few cards remaining at the first re-shuffle. But the DRAW was such that it governed the remainder of the game.

Surely, if one doesn't lose any units, that would help avoid a "dead draw." Let's say that happens...then what about turn 3, 4? If one holds back, doesn't this just delay the issue, until units are inevitably destroyed?

You said you haven't encountered this problem? That's interesting--not at all or not to a high degree?
How many turns do your games tend to take?
What ratio of units are remaining (to total units) at the last reshuffle?
Are you retaining a lot of Art of War cards on the table at the Reshuffle? If so, how many on average?

Thanks for the response,
KAM



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David S
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KAM1138 wrote:


So, I'm rash AND Brazen too...jeeze take it easy on me.


Haha, sorry! I didn't mean any offense with that. I was just trying to cover the scope of what might have been included in your "impatience", but, in hindsight, I now realize it was an unnecessary action.

KAM1138 wrote:

You said you haven't encountered this problem? That's interesting--not at all or not to a high degree?
How many turns do your games tend to take?
What ratio of units are remaining (to total units) at the last reshuffle?
Are you retaining a lot of Art of War cards on the table at the Reshuffle? If so, how many on average?

Thanks for the response,
KAM



I would clarify by saying "not to a high degree." Sure there have been occasional turns where neither I nor my opponent could perform a move -- a "dead draw", as you called it. But, to further clarify, one of my favorite games is Combat Commander, and that sort of thing can happen there, too. We've found that this increases the tension of the game, so it's welcome. But, that being said, the "dead draws" in Mythic Battles, when they do occur, aren't protracted to the point of being considered a problem.

I can't answer your question on the number of rounds, as I don't usually keep track of those things. I will say that we tend to use Art of War cards conservatively, but I can't say how many are left on the table at the time of reshuffling -- for me, I think I've had as many as four or five, if I were planning on a large-scale assault.

I wish I could provide more specifics. The heart of my reply, though, is that the "dead draws" haven't been a problem, but I now realize that this may be due to my love for and experience with games like Combat Commander. The next time I play, I'll try to keep track of the rounds and so forth, so I can have more definitive feedback for you.

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Zythal wrote:
KAM1138 wrote:

I'm an impatient player--I want to play my cards/units/etc rather than intentionally NOT play them because I MIGHT have a bad draw later on. Additionally, not using your resources is its own issue (lost opportunity).


I believe you've addressed your own issue, here. Be a little more patient and plan ahead, especially now that you understand that a lack of planning (or patience) can, in fact, lead to a bad draw later in the game.

KAM1138 wrote:

Anyway, I'm curious if others have had any similar problems managing activations, and what you think is a good way to mitigate this or manage it better.

Thanks,
KAM


I haven't encountered this problem, but I'm not an impatient player. I would advise being a little more calculating and a little less rash/brazen/impatient, and you may find that you have better results.



I am surprised you have not ever had that issue. Turn 2 you draw 3 cards. That, combined, with enough living units could possibly mitigate the bad luck draw. It can happen that you have a bad draw, and I have seen it happen, but it is unlikely.

Turn 3 is much more likely to witness this bad draw.

Even if you save an Art of War, it is very likely that you will only get one action first turn, and possibly no actions in the subsequent turn due to your dead units.

Of course, saving Art of War mitigates this some, but reinforcements have a cost to be sure. That trade off is part of the game, and for me, part of the fun.

This game is an economy of actions adn I love that about it.
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K AM
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Hello Zythal,

Zythal wrote:

Haha, sorry! I didn't mean any offense with that. I was just trying to cover the scope of what might have been included in your "impatience", but, in hindsight, I now realize it was an unnecessary action.


No offense taken.

Zythal wrote:

I would clarify by saying "not to a high degree." Sure there have been occasional turns where neither I nor my opponent could perform a move -- a "dead draw", as you called it. But, to further clarify, one of my favorite games is Combat Commander, and that sort of thing can happen there, too. We've found that this increases the tension of the game, so it's welcome. But, that being said, the "dead draws" in Mythic Battles, when they do occur, aren't protracted to the point of being considered a problem.


I've never played Combat Commander, but I agree that Mythic Battles can have some tense moments (A good thing). I'd also have to admit that I typically haven't had a major problem with "Dead draws" in Mythic Battles, excepting that last game I referenced.

Zythal wrote:

I can't answer your question on the number of rounds, as I don't usually keep track of those things. I will say that we tend to use Art of War cards conservatively, but I can't say how many are left on the table at the time of reshuffling -- for me, I think I've had as many as four or five, if I were planning on a large-scale assault.


Conserving those Art of War cards would be a major benefit, I agree. I'd typically have no more than 1-2, given that I try to reinforce as much as I can.


Zythal wrote:

I wish I could provide more specifics. The heart of my reply, though, is that the "dead draws" haven't been a problem, but I now realize that this may be due to my love for and experience with games like Combat Commander. The next time I play, I'll try to keep track of the rounds and so forth, so I can have more definitive feedback for you.


Sure, that would be great. I'd enjoy reading a session report if you have a chance at some point as well.

Thanks again,
KAM
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