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Subject: A couple of problematic game end situations? rss

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Peter D
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A couple of game-end situations arose recently which weren't ideal.

Three of the players were sitting ready to win as soon as the last topple card came into the market place. Therefore the winner was determined by whomever's turn the topple card came out on. That seemed a rather random way of concluding the game after 4 hours!

Also, a Kingmaker situation nearly arose whereby one player could have decided whom the winner was as he potentially had the opportunity to prevent the 4th toppling from being a success, which then would have given the victory to the person with the most cash (and he was neither of the two).

Despite these potential problems it is a great game.

Anyone else had these endgame scenarios?
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Martin G
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duckworp wrote:
Three of the players were sitting ready to win as soon as the last topple card came into the market place. Therefore the winner was determined by whomever's turn the topple card came out on. That seemed a rather random way of concluding the game after 4 hours!

Shouldn't they have been trying to counteract the other players' win conditions though? It's pretty hard to just 'sit' in the turbulent world of Pax

Quote:
Also, a Kingmaker situation nearly arose whereby one player could have decided whom the winner was as he potentially had the opportunity to prevent the 4th toppling from being a success, which then would have given the victory to the person with the most cash (and he was neither of the two).

This situation did come up in one of my games. I guess whether you think this is a problem or not depends on your feelings about king-making in general. It's pretty much unavoidable that there are some king-making scenarios in interative multi-player games.

Quote:
Despite these potential problems it is a great game.

Agreed!
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Jimmy Okolica
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Yes. It was a first game for the other 3 players (I'd played one other 4 player game). The topple card came out for the player who had the most money. However, he couldn't take it, because then he wouldn't have had enough. The next player could have taken it and changed the government to U.S. intervention forcing the other players to block him and then the game would have ended with a gold victory. He didn't grab the topple, letting me take it on my turn, changing the government to anarchy and winning (with no money to spare). I think if I hadn't taken it, the next player might have been able to generate enough cash (if he didn't take the topple) to have more money than player 1. It definitely felt random.

:shrug: As had been stated other places, Eklund is more concerned with giving his gamers a ride where there is no guarantee that things will end nicely. As a game, I admit it can be a bit frustrating, but as an experience, I love it. For the first time, I appreciate an Eklund game. A good simulation and a good game.

It's convinced me to pick up American Megafauna, though I have no idea when I'll get to try it.
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Mike Ricotta
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Butterfly0038 wrote:
The topple card came out for the player who had the most money. However, he couldn't take it, because then he wouldn't have had enough.


Not to derail (well ok, probibly) but if the player had speculated the topple card he would have always had enough money it sounds like...
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Martin G
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ricottma wrote:
Butterfly0038 wrote:
The topple card came out for the player who had the most money. However, he couldn't take it, because then he wouldn't have had enough.


Not to derail (well ok, probibly) but if the player had speculated the topple card he would have always had enough money it sounds like...

Huh? You don't get the money back if you buy something you speculated on yourself.
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Jimmy Okolica
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qwertymartin wrote:
ricottma wrote:
Butterfly0038 wrote:
The topple card came out for the player who had the most money. However, he couldn't take it, because then he wouldn't have had enough.


Not to derail (well ok, probibly) but if the player had speculated the topple card he would have always had enough money it sounds like...

Huh? You don't get the money back if you buy something you speculated on yourself.


No, but if he speculated it and player 4 had bought it, he would have gotten the money player 4 spent, ensuring he kept his lead despite any income player 4 got.

Yeah, i said that to him afterwards.
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Mike Ricotta
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qwertymartin wrote:
ricottma wrote:
Butterfly0038 wrote:
The topple card came out for the player who had the most money. However, he couldn't take it, because then he wouldn't have had enough.


Not to derail (well ok, probibly) but if the player had speculated the topple card he would have always had enough money it sounds like...

Huh? You don't get the money back if you buy something you speculated on yourself.


yea, but if player 1 has the most cash and then gets the cash from anyone else buying it he should always have the most cash. It wouldn't have stopped the anachry win. Just thinking of strategery out loud...
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Martin G
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Ah I see. Makes sense!
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Andrew S. Fischer
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I don't like petty or random kingmaking, but if it's a case of you-banged-me-more-than-anyone-else-so-I'm-giving-someone-else-the-win, that seems reasonable.
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Phil Eklund
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asfhgwt wrote:
I don't like petty or random kingmaking, but if it's a case of you-banged-me-more-than-anyone-else-so-I'm-giving-someone-else-the-win, that seems reasonable.



This was indeed the case in a kingmaker situation in one 3-player game I remember. One player (my wife) shut down both Sonora and chihuahua in red-flag civil war, then started a depression. She had the most gold by far, and with the economy shut down nobody could topple Diaz. One of the victimized players (Dr. Erosion) could not win, but could buy enough speculation cards from me, the other victim, so that I had more gold than she had, enough gold to win.
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