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Subject: Triggering/Ending depression rss

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unkle
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After the first pass on the rules, I was under the impression that Depression are only triggered during the "Discard headlines" phase of a player turn, but now I think anytime, even during a player's turn, a Bull/Bull or Bear/Bear pair is built due to play or discard on top of the Bull/Bear discard, it changes the economical state of the play potentially...

Specifically (since Phil is checking these threads) it might be legitimate to add the depression as one of the possible effects of the play of a headline during the buy a market card action for a player (page 5 of the rules I have right now).

Or am I wrong ?? blush
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Martin G
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unkle wrote:

Or am I wrong ?? blush

You are correct in all respects.
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unkle
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qwertymartin wrote:
unkle wrote:

Or am I wrong ?? blush

You are correct in all respects.


Thanks Martin. Be patient, I'll probably have other questions soon whistle
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Martin G
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unkle wrote:
Thanks Martin. Be patient, I'll probably have other questions soon whistle

No problem, I am quite enjoying my unoffical role as PP rules consultant Hope I don't get anything wrong though!
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Phil Eklund
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unkle wrote:
After the first pass on the rules, I was under the impression that Depression are only triggered during the "Discard headlines" phase of a player turn, but now I think anytime, even during a player's turn, a Bull/Bull or Bear/Bear pair is built due to play or discard on top of the Bull/Bear discard, it changes the economical state of the play potentially...

Specifically (since Phil is checking these threads) it might be legitimate to add the depression as one of the possible effects of the play of a headline during the buy a market card action for a player (page 5 of the rules I have right now).

Or am I wrong ?? blush


Jerome, It is true that you can trigger (or stop) a depression during your turn by purchasing a Headline. This is clearly specified in the description of the Headline cards on Page 2.

However, this does not impact you (or other players) instantly, but only during your phase 4 Income Phase. For instance, if you buy a bear Headline (as one of your phase 1 actions), the card is discarded immediately into the Bull-Bear Discards. If there is already a bear card there, then the game plunges into Depression immediately. This impacts you during your phase 4, in which your income is possibly reduced and its also possible you have to get rid of bankrupt enterprises.

For this reason, it is not a good idea (in your French translation) to add "Depression" to the effects listed on Page 5 under "Buying Market Cards". The relevant sentence is "The effects listed on a Play-Immediately Card (Strife, Regime Change, etc. see Glossary) impact all players, starting with the player to the left of the purchaser and going clockwise ending with you." Yes, it is true that purchase of a Play-Immediately Headline can start Depression, but notice that this sentence pertains only to those effects which instantly impact other players, and it is important to specify the order of impact. Depression does not impact any player until their respective phase 4 income phases, and so should not be included in this rule.

The Living Rules are posted as a Googledocs document, and I encourage comments or suggestions on specific formulations to be added to this file. If you wish access to this file, or wish to be invited to the paxgames yahoo group (where all the potential games in the Pax series are discussed) drop me a line at phileklund@gmail.com.
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Martin G
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phileklund wrote:

Jerome, It is true that you can trigger (or stop) a depression during your turn by purchasing a Headline. This is clearly specified in the description of the Headline cards on Page 2.

However, this does not impact you (or other players) instantly, but only during your phase 4 Income Phase.


Interesting... so you don't immediately adjust your income cubes on banks/mines, and have them sacked if necessary?
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Phil Eklund
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I misspoke. If there is a depression, all income cubes are immediately adjusted, and as i said it normally does not effect you until your Income Phase. But you have a good point, this can effect you earlier for sacking and slave revolts.
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unkle
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qwertymartin wrote:
phileklund wrote:

Jerome, It is true that you can trigger (or stop) a depression during your turn by purchasing a Headline. This is clearly specified in the description of the Headline cards on Page 2.

However, this does not impact you (or other players) instantly, but only during your phase 4 Income Phase.


Interesting... so you don't immediately adjust your income cubes on banks/mines, and have them sacked if necessary?


Highly valuable comments. Of course, as a rule addict that have not yet played the game, I wonder what happens if you have a bear, buy a bear, and discard 2 bulls (and vice-versa).

My guess is that it does not happen but still :-)
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Martin G
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Jerome, bull/bear symbols appear only on Headlines, which don't go into players' hands.

However, the order is important, so given Phil's clarification you could have such a 'mini-depression'.

For example, one bear on the discard pile, player buys a bear and depression starts. Player then buys a bull, and then another bull headline is discarded fromfrom the zero spot, ending the depression.
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unkle
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Martin, I probably have not said it as clearly as you mentionned. My idea was Bear on top, players buys and play a bear. Then 2 bulls waiting in the 0-row. Which in the end is exactly similar to what you mention: mini-crach.

Again these ideas do not come from gameplay, but pure rule-reading. So it may really be the case that this does not happen.
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Martin G
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No, you've got it right. That could definitely happen.
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