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Crown of Roses» Forums » Rules

Subject: 2- and 3-player scenarios: Entry of Stafford as non-player Heir rss

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Edward Kendrick
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Redditch
Worcestershire
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Excuse me if this question has been asked already, but I'm not sure what to do in this situation. In a 2- or 3-player scenario (eg scenario 1), the setup says "Blocks with specific entry Turns (ie Royal Heirs) are Inactive and are set aside".

So if we look at the Buckingham House, H-1 (Buckingham) starts in the Lancaster faction, and H-3 (Wiltshire) and H-4 (Southwick) enter as Inactive Nobles on Turns 2 and 3 respectively, when (since they have boxes on the RoP) they can presumably be recruited by Influence like any other Noble. But what about H-2 (Stafford)? He's available from Turn 3, but has no RoP box and so can't be Influenced. His card is out of play. How can he be recruited? Or can't he? Does he take no part in the game?

I think this question only applies to Stafford, since all the Warwick Heirs have RoP boxes and can thus be brought in as Inactive Nobles if not already committed at the start of the scenario (eg Fauconberg in the 3-player version).

However, I'm further confused by two other points:
In the third scenario, PB 3.3.9.6, we have "The Stafford block ... is available ... including being influenced back to the Yorkist side".
How can he be Influenced without an RoP box?

And finally, in the recent FAQ, we have:
"Q What do we do with Heirs before their entry turn listed on their Heir card?
A They are Inactive blocks if they have no RoP box or are Clarence. Only heirs specific (sic) as having their Heir card in-play are set up In-Play."
This seems to imply that non-player Heirs such as Wiltshire and Southwick can be Influenced before their turn of arrival ... I think ... and still leaves us unsure about Stafford.

My own view is that the non-player Heirs are Unavailable until their turn of entry (representing the individual not yet being old enough to take part in politics), and that providing Stafford with an RoP box (obviously only used when the Buckingham House is not a player House) would resolve this issue.


 
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Kevin Bernatz
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Alexandria
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In a 2 player game, all non-York, non-Lancaster blocks not already set-up are available to be influenced on their RoP. Ignore the Heir markings on all of these Buckingham and Warwick Blocks...they are meaningless in a 2 or 3p game. The exception is Stafford, who has no RoP box and is Out of Play for the entire game barring scenario special rule.

In a 3 player game, the same applies to the Warwick Blocks (i.e. ignore all the Warwick Heir markings on the Blocks...they can never be Heirs as their Heir card will never be played as House Warwick is not an active House in a 3 player game). Stafford is now "Unavailable' to either player until turn 3, when he /could/ be brought in IF (and only IF) the Buckingham player plays his Heir Card. Stafford then arrives as a full Heir.

The other Buckingham Nobles (Wiltshire, etc) that have RoP boxes on them but are NOT marked as an Heir (like Buckingham), can be influenced by any player...including Buckingham. They remain off the map Unavailable until either someone plays IP's on their RoP box and wins them over to their side; OR until the Buckingham player plays their Heir card as the Event on a turn after the listed turn number associated with that Heir. At that point the Block transforms from just a "Noble" into an "Heir" and can no longer be influenced by anyone.

Remember, that prior to the Heir /CARD/ being played, the title still existed...it was simply held by someone else represented by the Block. That is why those Nobles with RoP boxes can still be influenced PRIOR to becoming an Heir...

-K
 
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Edward Kendrick
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Redditch
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OK, so non-player Heirs aren't considered Heirs at all - that makes sense. And Stafford doesn't enter play if the Buckingham House isn't in play. Thanks for that clarification.

As a matter of interest, why treat Stafford differently from, say, Warwick?

And there is still the difficulty of the SSR referring to Influencing Stafford when he doesn't have an RoP box ...
 
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Kevin Bernatz
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I'll let SAC answer these :-) :-) :-)

-K

Barbarossa wrote:
OK, so non-player Heirs aren't considered Heirs at all - that makes sense. And Stafford doesn't enter play if the Buckingham House isn't in play. Thanks for that clarification.

As a matter of interest, why treat Stafford differently from, say, Warwick?

And there is still the difficulty of the SSR referring to Influencing Stafford when he doesn't have an RoP box ...
 
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