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Escape: The Curse of the Temple» Forums » General

Subject: why so expensive? rss

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Kapitan Zbik
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I was thinking about this game but 2 things stopped me for now.

1. The game was supported through the kickstarted as far as i am aware and most of the money to make it happen was given by fans. So Queen games treats us as a milky cow or what?
2. Second think is linked with first one looking at the components and what is in box and what it offers 50 euros is ridicilouse price taking into the account point one

Are we milky cows or this is just my impression?
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Dennis de Vries
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We all are milk cows: a.k.a. 'consumers'. It's necessary to make the human world go round. With this in my mind it's entirely up to you if you would want to buy the game or not (whatever reason you use for (not) buying the game).

On the other hand: I think with the 50 euro's it's an expensive game (so I do agree with you, Kapitan). Many of the games I like are going for this kind of money nowadays, so it doesn't surprise me anymore. This is my rationale to spend the 50 euro's (I can't get it cheaper), also I like to 'support' the local store here, so I don't mind the few euro's 'loss' if I would buy it online.

About the kickstarter: the money is used for the backers only. To get them the game. Now that Queen knows the game was a hit, they could produce it: that's what they are doing now. And they need money to do that (at least: I think it works that way, correct me if I'm wrong).

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Nushura
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Now we could use the well-known argument of "you can play an evening with 6 friends, and it is cheaper than cinema"...but indeed it is very expensive compared to other boardgames.

On the good side, I have already seen several places that sell it waay cheaper than 50 euro (I think it is announced for 40USD at amazon, I see several german places that say 35, and a Spanish website has it for 30 euro). Wait after Christmas hype has passed and I am sure you will find it at a more reasonable rate close to wherever you live.

If you are one of those that cannot wait... I am afraid you will have to pay the full price
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Martin Gallo
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KapitanZbik wrote:
… looking at the components and what is in box and what it offers 50 euros is ridicilouse price taking into the account point one
All the dice in the game are custom, and custom raises the price point for a game.

I think that if you were to try and have custom dice made for a project the price is roughly $1 US per face plus the cost of the die itself, so roughly $7 per die in small quantities. Even if you mass produce the dice to get the quantity discount the price is still roughly half that. Even if you find a great price for the custom dice there are 25 dice in Escape, so it adds up rather quickly.
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Kapitan Zbik
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Menghini wrote:


About the kickstarter: the money is used for the backers only. To get them the game. Now that Queen knows the game was a hit, they could produce it: that's what they are doing now. And they need money to do that (at least: I think it works that way, correct me if I'm wrong).



Well some of the designers start with nothing and are able to print the game. Some companies cover everything from their own packet and sell the games much cheaper.Kickstarter iniciative was started by queen games and they gathered close to 60000$ so they started with nice profit comparing with companies who cover everything by themselves.
Well i heard rumors that kickstarter is getting overused IMO this is one example and standing ovation for the Queen games for creative approch.

Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...said milky cow
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Rick Teverbaugh
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I have no idea why every discussion of a game's cost, especially complaints like this one, always centers on components. It makes no sense to me. Dominion is easily one of my biggest bargain purchases ever and it is mostly just cards. If there are great components and the game does nothing for me, then that game was overpriced to me. For my money, since I don't buy a game for its components, whether a game is overpriced or a bargain centers on how often I play it and how much fun I have while I play in relationship to what the game costs.

Right now I wouldn't think of this game as a bargain at even half the price because of all the stupid, unnecessary hoops I've had to jump through trying to secure a copy of the game and I still don't have it. I would rather Queen have charged $10 more for the game and made a better decision about a distributor for this game in the U.S. Then the game might very well have been a bargain.
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Martin Gallo
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Tretiak wrote:
martimer wrote:

I think that if you were to try and have custom dice made for a project the price is roughly $1 US per face plus the cost of the die itself, so roughly $7 per die in small quantities. Even if you mass produce the dice to get the quantity discount the price is still roughly half that. Even if you find a great price for the custom dice there are 25 dice in Escape, so it adds up rather quickly.


You make sense and I would tend to agree with this being the main reason but then how on Earth is Quarriors that cheap then?
Much higher print run?
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Nushura
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martimer wrote:
Tretiak wrote:
martimer wrote:

I think that if you were to try and have custom dice made for a project the price is roughly $1 US per face plus the cost of the die itself, so roughly $7 per die in small quantities. Even if you mass produce the dice to get the quantity discount the price is still roughly half that. Even if you find a great price for the custom dice there are 25 dice in Escape, so it adds up rather quickly.


You make sense and I would tend to agree with this being the main reason but then how on Earth is Quarriors that cheap then?
Much higher print run?


I do not think that the dice for escape is as expensive as Quarriors. Indeed Quarriors has a bigger print run, but Escape only has one type of die...so for a print run of 10.000 copies they are making 250.000 times the same die! I doubt that it costs much more than 2$ per die.

The CD might also add to the cost, but again the number of copies must reduce the price
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Cameron Chien
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rickert wrote:
I have no idea why every discussion of a game's cost, especially complaints like this one, always centers on components. It makes no sense to me.

Because this is BGG and people have to complain about anything and everything about a game. Maybe we should rename the site to Board Game Goldilocks, because that's how it feels most of the time, hehehe.

"This game is too expensive, this game is too cheap! This box is too small, this box is too big! This game is too simple, this one is too fiddly!"



Cameron
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Matt Smith
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Best $45US I've ever spent on a Kickstarter game.
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Todd Barker
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I was a little on the fence at first aswell but I can tell you this game is worth every dollar, check out my review and you can tell I am a fan.

As far as the whole kickstarter thing goes I think anytime a already discovered or game publisher with a solid reputation all you are doing is supporting their marketing plan, sure you can get some nice limited edition swag, or your game before everyone else but a company like Queen Games already had the money to publish Escape without the kickstarts funding
 
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Josh Jenkins
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I was a bit hesitant paying $50USD when I picked up Escape this morning from my FLGS, but I now feel like it was worth every penny. The components are very high quality and the production values are top notch. All of the tiles are very thick and chunky, the dice are high quality and beautifully etched, and the game is a blast to play!
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Tables
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martimer wrote:
KapitanZbik wrote:
… looking at the components and what is in box and what it offers 50 euros is ridicilouse price taking into the account point one
All the dice in the game are custom, and custom raises the price point for a game.

I think that if you were to try and have custom dice made for a project the price is roughly $1 US per face plus the cost of the die itself, so roughly $7 per die in small quantities. Even if you mass produce the dice to get the quantity discount the price is still roughly half that. Even if you find a great price for the custom dice there are 25 dice in Escape, so it adds up rather quickly.


These numbers are way out. The gaming society I'm in recently had 300 custom dice made and they were about 40p each (that's about 70 cents I think? But US is cheaper than the UK, so probably more like 50 cents). Now, they only had one custom side, but still, doing an entire dice is still only going to be about $1 or so at that kind of quantity. Mass produce, and you're looking at probably well under half that, i.e. the set of dice probably cost about $7-8 dollars total.

rickert wrote:
I have no idea why every discussion of a game's cost, especially complaints like this one, always centers on components. It makes no sense to me. Dominion is easily one of my biggest bargain purchases ever and it is mostly just cards. If there are great components and the game does nothing for me, then that game was overpriced to me. For my money, since I don't buy a game for its components, whether a game is overpriced or a bargain centers on how often I play it and how much fun I have while I play in relationship to what the game costs.

Right now I wouldn't think of this game as a bargain at even half the price because of all the stupid, unnecessary hoops I've had to jump through trying to secure a copy of the game and I still don't have it. I would rather Queen have charged $10 more for the game and made a better decision about a distributor for this game in the U.S. Then the game might very well have been a bargain.


On the other hand, cards are really expensive. 100 custom cards is a good $5 in mass production.

Anyway when I saw what was in the box, I really wasn't surprised at the cost, you do get a LOT of stuff. Unfortunately lots of it is really useless to most people!

Unnecessary contents:
13 basic room tiles (you can play without them, and choose to ignore the curse and treasure icons. I've taught people this way without issue).
Rules in 5 different languages, each of which consists of 3 different sheets (I bought the game in the UK. I want the English rules, not an extra 12 pieces of glossy paper).

Now, that might not sound like much, but those room tiles are huge, that's more than 3 sheets of card components you're paying extra for. And those rule sheets, among other things, really get in the way.

Escape is a really fun game, but it really should have contained less stuff and been a lot cheaper.
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Kapitan Zbik
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Usually i dont complain i just buy the game if i like it.
I do complain about this game because if smaller companies cover everything from their own packet and sell similar or better in quality games for less money, then something is not right.
60 000 as a profit from the board game is above the dream of some companies and Queen games started with this and now charging us extra for the game.
Still i feel like milky cow
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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KapitanZbik wrote:
Usually i dont complain i just buy the game if i like it.
I do complain about this game because if smaller companies cover everything from their own packet and sell similar or better in quality games for less money, then something is not right.
60 000 as a profit from the board game is above the dream of some companies and Queen games started with this and now charging us extra for the game.
Still i feel like milky cow


Then don't buy it. Don't play it. Move on. You are too fixated by price and the whole kickstarter experience. Companies and designers need to get paid for the time they spent creating the game and playtesting as well as producing it. If we want companies to remain in business so we can have more new choices for games, there has to be profit. I still think it is silly to judge a game's price without playing it to see how much substance is there and how much it gets played. I'd rather pay extra for a game that is so much fun it regularly gets to the table rather than pay for great components in a game that mostly just sits on the shelf,
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Cameron Chien
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How is the money raised from KickStarter for this game pure profit? Where are people getting these numbers from?

Cameron
 
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Simon Lundström
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I agree that the game was expensive.

However, it was great, so I don't care. The components weren't cheap, but they weren't many. But I didn't pay for the components, I paid for the game. Sure, it was half a blind buy, but my gut feeling didn't fail me.
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Nushura
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rickert wrote:
I have no idea why every discussion of a game's cost, especially complaints like this one, always centers on components


I have the game, and I love it. That does not mean that I may think that the price is too high, low, or that the box in which it comes is big, right? I think that a game, like most products, should be priced in a way that the production costs are paid, and all participating companies get a fair share.

Of course, "fair" is a hard thing to determine...but the share should be the same in this game, and other games that incur more or less the same risks and production costs. Indeed, Queen games has spent a lot of money in this game, but it was kickstarted (hence the chances of not making a profit are low), and the production cost is not so high...thus I agree with the OP and believe that the price is a bit too high.

Indeed if you think that a game should be priced as a function of its fun value, then indeed this game is cheap. Indeed, I overlooked the price/large box issue and bought the game. However, I am certain that others thought the price was too much and stopped there.

P.s: as a final note even Queen Games seems to agree since in several places I have seen this game for sale at 30 euro (for example amazon.de)...which is 40% off the MRSP only a month after it appeared for sale...so their sales are not as high as they expected
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Nushura wrote:
rickert wrote:
I have no idea why every discussion of a game's cost, especially complaints like this one, always centers on components


I have the game, and I love it. That does not mean that I may think that the price is too high, low, or that the box in which it comes is big, right? I think that a game, like most products, should be priced in a way that the production costs are paid, and all participating companies get a fair share.

Of course, "fair" is a hard thing to determine...but the share should be the same in this game, and other games that incur more or less the same risks and production costs. Indeed, Queen games has spent a lot of money in this game, but it was kickstarted (hence the chances of not making a profit are low), and the production cost is not so high...thus I agree with the OP and believe that the price is a bit too high.

Indeed if you think that a game should be priced as a function of its fun value, then indeed this game is cheap. Indeed, I overlooked the price/large box issue and bought the game. However, I am certain that others thought the price was too much and stopped there.

P.s: as a final note even Queen Games seems to agree since in several places I have seen this game for sale at 30 euro (for example amazon.de)...which is 40% off the MRSP only a month after it appeared for sale...so their sales are not as high as they expected


I think your rationale is skewed. Just because there are lower prices, that easily could mean companies are competing for customers in a competitive market for a hot item. It doesn't indicate lagging sales for this product to me at all.
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Cameron Chien
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I look at how much fun I got out of something. For example, Left 4 Dead 2 went on sale last week for $5. That's ridiculous gaming value. I have logged 120 hours between L4D1 and the sequel (the sequel has all of the campaigns from the first one included now).

Now I paid $45 for the two games back when L4D2 just came out, but I have still paid an amazing 37.5 cents per hour of gaming fun.

Edit: We'll see how many hours I get out of Escape, but I know it will be great fun!

Cameron
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rickert wrote:

I think your rationale is skewed. Just because there are lower prices, that easily could mean companies are competing for customers in a competitive market for a hot item. It doesn't indicate lagging sales for this product to me at all.


The fact that Queen Games reduces prices (or not) is just a minor point in my point: my point is that the cost of a game should not be measured in hours of fun per dollar, but as a measure in production cost/risk/etc.
 
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Simon Lundström
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Nushura wrote:
my point is that the cost of a game should not be measured in hours of fun per dollar, but as a measure in production cost/risk/etc.

For the company, I agree.
For the customer, I think we should really go more for what's it worth to us.

In the end, though, it's supply and demand that steer the prices.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Nushura wrote:
rickert wrote:

I think your rationale is skewed. Just because there are lower prices, that easily could mean companies are competing for customers in a competitive market for a hot item. It doesn't indicate lagging sales for this product to me at all.


The fact that Queen Games reduces prices (or not) is just a minor point in my point: my point is that the cost of a game should not be measured in hours of fun per dollar, but as a measure in production cost/risk/etc.


And my ONLY point is that there's no point in looking at it that way.
 
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Nushura wrote:
rickert wrote:

I think your rationale is skewed. Just because there are lower prices, that easily could mean companies are competing for customers in a competitive market for a hot item. It doesn't indicate lagging sales for this product to me at all.


The fact that Queen Games reduces prices (or not) is just a minor point in my point: my point is that the cost of a game should not be measured in hours of fun per dollar, but as a measure in production cost/risk/etc.


I guess the key word here is "should" - since mere production cost/risk certainly don't always sound in price.

One word: iPhone. You'd never pay $100s based on what it cost to make it - but plenty of people buy it on the fun/hour basis, overpriced though it is.
 
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Tiger Wiccan
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I paid $32.99 for it. Not that expensive.

Besides, just because a game gets funded on KS doesn't mean they can afford to sell it for peanuts to those that didn't back it. The KS money enabled the game to go into production in the first place. After that, normal economics take over and they will sell it for as much money as they think people are going to pay for it.

That said, I doubt I would have paid the full $50 retail price for this game, but I happen to be local to coolstuffinc.com, so I can get games at their discount price without having to pay any shipping or spend $100 or more to get free shipping.
 
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