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Subject: Stop with all the Deck-Building Games!! rss

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Jeff Hinrickson
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I know, I know. My subject line is just asking someone to run me over the coals for saying it.

I seems like 7 out of 10 new games that are produced these days is a Deck builder (this is probably over stated, I'm sure some statustician will set me straight - where's
David desJardins
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when I need him?)

I'm not completely opposed to the Deck Building Mechanic, it just seems that at this point it is a pissing contest to see who can come up with the best one.
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I like to employ the strategy of not buying them to express my distaste. It works wonders.
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broken clock wrote:
I like to employ the strategy of not buying them to express my distaste. It works wonders.


And yet new deck builders seem to come out quite often. Are you sure your strategy is doing anything other than (maybe) slowing down the influx of new games in your collection?
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You don't have to buy them. It thins out the herd of choices.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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broken clock wrote:
I like to employ the strategy of not buying them to express my distaste. It works wonders.


I'm with you brother.

I just fear if Deck building is the next best thing then some great designers - according to me - will be swayed into making Deck builders instead of the other great game mechanics they could focus on.
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Alison Mandible
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jjloc wrote:
I'm not completely opposed to the Deck Building Mechanic, it just seems that at this point it is a pissing contest to see who can come up with the best one.


I'm fine with designers competing to see who can make the best one of anything. What bugs me is the contest to see who can make the one with the highest ratio of sales to development-beyond-the-games-it-resembles.
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I'd like to see a stop to placing workers to gather resources to trade for points genre.
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Curt Carpenter
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jjloc wrote:
I just fear if Deck building is the next best thing then some great designers - according to me - will be swayed into making Deck builders instead of the other great game mechanics they could focus on.

Maybe the designer(s) you like would make a deck-builder you like.
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Paul Imboden
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These things go in cycles.

3 years ago, worker placement was riding the wave of the "Greatest Thing Ever". 3 years before that, it was role selection.

The love of deck-building as a core game mechanic will slow down to that of a peripheral, sometimes-not-always mechanic soon enough. Pretty soon, I bet, with the rise of the drafting mechanic... and the cycle continues.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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curtc wrote:
jjloc wrote:
I just fear if Deck building is the next best thing then some great designers - according to me - will be swayed into making Deck builders instead of the other great game mechanics they could focus on.

Maybe the designer(s) you like would make a deck-builder you like.


Could be. I wouldn't mind a Deck Builder game that has that as part of the in game mechanic (that would probably be a drafting mechanic then), but the thought of not being able to just open the game read the rules and start playing is distasteful to me. I don't want to have to do pregame prep alongside rules explaination.

All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.
 
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Opie wrote:
These things go in cycles.

3 years ago, worker placement was riding the wave of the "Greatest Thing Ever". 3 years before that, it was role selection.

The love of deck-building as a core game mechanic will slow down to that of a peripheral, sometimes-not-always mechanic soon enough. Pretty soon, I bet, with the rise of the drafting mechanic... and the cycle continues.


I would tend to agree with you.
 
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Make the next big thing and it'll stop.
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Placing workers to build decks.
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Jythier wrote:
Placing workers zombies to build decks.


Corrected.
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jjloc wrote:
broken clock wrote:
I like to employ the strategy of not buying them to express my distaste. It works wonders.


I'm with you brother.

I just fear if Deck building is the next best thing then some great designers - according to me - will be swayed into making Deck builders instead of the other great game mechanics they could focus on.


I'll take the random "fad" every now and again. At least it's easy to tell that you won't enjoy it and can move on to try other things. Unlike something more narrow for dislike, like "I hate Euros" or "I hate games with dice in them." There, you'll always have someone say "oh but you'll like THIS one..."

If you say "I dislike Deckbuilding games" it'll pretty much keep that from happening.
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jjloc wrote:
All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but this is not a deckbuilder like Dominion, Ascension, Thunderstone, etc. You start with a deck, and have full access to it, and it never grows.
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curtc wrote:
jjloc wrote:
All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but this is not a deckbuilder like Dominion, Ascension, Thunderstone, etc. You start with a deck, and have full access to it, and it never grows.


However, you have to construct your deck prior to playing the game - isn't that Deck Building?

I thought Dominion was more card drafting. Maybe I'm just screwed in the head.
 
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Scott Hill
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curtc wrote:
jjloc wrote:
All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but this is not a deckbuilder like Dominion, Ascension, Thunderstone, etc. You start with a deck, and have full access to it, and it never grows.


Does it involve a Tableau?

 
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Agent J
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jjloc wrote:
curtc wrote:
jjloc wrote:
All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but this is not a deckbuilder like Dominion, Ascension, Thunderstone, etc. You start with a deck, and have full access to it, and it never grows.


However, you have to construct your deck prior to playing the game - isn't that Deck Building?

I thought Dominion was more card drafting. Maybe I'm just screwed in the head.


I thought Dominion pretty much invented deck-building. Which is, of course, drafting, and then using the cards you drafted through reshuffling the deck you built.
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
curtc wrote:
jjloc wrote:
All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but this is not a deckbuilder like Dominion, Ascension, Thunderstone, etc. You start with a deck, and have full access to it, and it never grows.


Does it involve a Tableau?



Place workers to draft cards into your built deck which you can play to your tableau. But not zombies, so someone will come out with another version that DOES have zombies involved somehow within the next two years.
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jjloc wrote:

However, you have to construct your deck prior to playing the game - isn't that Deck Building?

I thought Dominion was more card drafting. Maybe I'm just screwed in the head.


As a matter of terminology, most people use the phrase "deck building game" to mean games like Dominion in which the deck is constructed during the game.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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pmagnus wrote:
jjloc wrote:

However, you have to construct your deck prior to playing the game - isn't that Deck Building?

I thought Dominion was more card drafting. Maybe I'm just screwed in the head.


As a matter of terminology, most people use the phrase "deck building game" to mean games like Dominion in which the deck is constructed during the game.


Thanks for confirming my being screwed in the head.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
curtc wrote:
jjloc wrote:
All this distaste that I speak of - I did however purchase Mage Wars Arena. So now I'm a hypocrite.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology is, but this is not a deckbuilder like Dominion, Ascension, Thunderstone, etc. You start with a deck, and have full access to it, and it never grows.


Does it involve a Tableau?



Tableau.

For some reason that word just makes me laugh.
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Opie wrote:
These things go in cycles.

3 years ago, worker placement was riding the wave of the "Greatest Thing Ever". 3 years before that, it was role selection.

and before that auctions and tile laying.
worker placement still reigns supreme in euro genre it seems.

Sure it's both of these:
- publishers want in on the next great thing
- designers want to try their hand at this as well

But the main problem: Deckbuilding is the saviour of the CCG genre for the publishers, it allows for making of cheap games (card games are cheap) and can have infinite expansions (if you pace it just right, so people don't get tired of it).

jjloc wrote:
I just fear if Deck building is the next best thing then some great designers - according to me - will be swayed into making Deck builders instead of the other great game mechanics they could focus on.

You seen the latest euro designs? It's throw all the mechanic in and maybe it will work: worker placement + area control and even some deck building on the side if possible.

In the end it boils down to some creative people, who'll come up with new concepts (which will then be repeated ad nauseam, and put on kickstarter in zombie drag). So we wait and see and hope and support stupid design ideas, sometimes they produce the magic.

It could be that the biggest problem right now is Kickstarter, not deck building. And I like Kickstarter, but it's main achievement was innovation in the thematic department (give people what they want) - mostly it succeded in pushing the "trading in mediterranean" themes out of euros.

Also Kickstarter managed to revive some of the nearly dead genres of gaming (so mechanics that are not new, but were not used) - there's more negotiation games around and even paragraph style adventures are making a comeback. (Agents of SMERSH).

But it's true that Kickstarter lacks on the level of mechanical innovations - a lot of designs there seem half- baked, not quite finished. And developing innovative mechanics is encouraged by this system, what's encouraged is doing games with zombies. However, we may pray that in this abundance of homebrew designs going to kickstater there will be some gems and ideas that even if underdeveloped some other designers could pick up and do something with them.


So, I'm not worried, business as usual. Don't like stuff - don't buy it.
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