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Subject: three minor (picky) rules questions rss

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Alison Mandible
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1. Is breaking enemy locks a targeted action? If so, when do you decide how to use the points assigned to a target? (In other words, suppose Vengeance is locked on us, and we do not have a lock on it. We put one sensor target under it, and match that target. Do we get to decide whether to break the lock or acquire our own lock after the action round?)

2. Does "flicking" (the movement you use to launch the Weapons disc) mean specifically the motion where you trap your index finger behind your thumb, position your hand behind the disc, and then move your thumb out of the way to suddenly push the disc forward?

I had assumed it did, but one player wanted to put his finger on top of the disc and sort of... push it forward then release. He said this was legit as long as he let it go before the range line. I felt like it was too hard to tell if the disc was actually released before the line (even with the best intentions), making the task too easy.

3. Can Weapons pieces be flipped? This matters for a handful of them (and there's a visible front and back, so it would be doable to say "no flipping", though I guess if that were intended the back might have been marked).
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Cameron Chien
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2. That's not flicking. That's pushing. Flicking specifically involves the finger impacting the disc for a brief moment. It's like the difference between pushing a soccer ball with your foot and kicking it. When I kick it, my foot is only in contact with it for a brief moment.

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Geoffrey Engelstein
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grasa_total wrote:
1. Is breaking enemy locks a targeted action? If so, when do you decide how to use the points assigned to a target? (In other words, suppose Vengeance is locked on us, and we do not have a lock on it. We put one sensor target under it, and match that target. Do we get to decide whether to break the lock or acquire our own lock after the action round?)


You don't have to declare what you're going to use the points for until after you see how many you get, and actually have to resolve it during Step 4. You need to assign them to a particular target, but not the usage.

For example, you assign two target cards to Vengeance, planning to upgrade your Lock to a Superlock. You only find one piece during the Action Step. During Step 4 you decide to use your one Sensor point on Vengeance to Break it's lock on your ship. Note that you still have to use it on Vengeance - you can't switch it to Sensor Scan, for example.


Quote:
2. Does "flicking" (the movement you use to launch the Weapons disc) mean specifically the motion where you trap your index finger behind your thumb, position your hand behind the disc, and then move your thumb out of the way to suddenly push the disc forward?

I had assumed it did, but one player wanted to put his finger on top of the disc and sort of... push it forward then release. He said this was legit as long as he let it go before the range line. I felt like it was too hard to tell if the disc was actually released before the line (even with the best intentions), making the task too easy.


The intent is that you need to hit the side. But it's your game, so... whatever

Quote:
3. Can Weapons pieces be flipped? This matters for a handful of them (and there's a visible front and back, so it would be doable to say "no flipping", though I guess if that were intended the back might have been marked).


Absolutely. You can use them in any orientation.

Geoff
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David Jensen
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engelstein wrote:
grasa_total wrote:
1. Is breaking enemy locks a targeted action? If so, when do you decide how to use the points assigned to a target? (In other words, suppose Vengeance is locked on us, and we do not have a lock on it. We put one sensor target under it, and match that target. Do we get to decide whether to break the lock or acquire our own lock after the action round?)


You don't have to declare what you're going to use the points for until after you see how many you get, and actually have to resolve it during Step 4. You need to assign them to a particular target, but not the usage.

For example, you assign two target cards to Vengeance, planning to upgrade your Lock to a Superlock. You only find one piece during the Action Step. During Step 4 you decide to use your one Sensor point on Vengeance to Break it's lock on your ship. Note that you still have to use it on Vengeance - you can't switch it to Sensor Scan, for example.


Geoff thanks for replying.

To gain a lock costs one point, then to flip the token requires an additional two points (as I read the rules). This gives me the impression it costs a total of three points to super lock a target in a single turn (as confirmed in the rules as well). That would be fine, but the example in the rules shows only two cards being assigned to an enemy ship. You do the same in your typed example above. In both examples its implied that the reason you're using two sensor cards is to gain a super lock; especially since the points are reset each phase. I am confused.

Here are three scenarios, I believe Scenario 1 is accurate, the real problem is with the difference in scenario 2 vs 3. And scenario four is an open ended question.

Scenario 1:
No Lock Tokens in play but an enemy is locked on us. Two sensor cards, both solved; creates two points. 1 pt to place a lock token and the other point to lose the enemy lock.

Scenario 2:
No lock tokens in play, no enemy ships locked on us. Three cards, three solved creates three points. 1 point to apply a lock token, 2 pts to flip the token to super locked.

Or Scenario 3:
No lock tokens in play, no enemy ships locked on us. Two cards, two solved creates two points. 1 point to apply a lock token, 1 pt to flip the token to super locked.

Scenario 4:
Lock token in play, no enemy ships locked on us. How many cards would I have to solve to turn the already played lock token to flip it over to a super lock?

Thank you!
I will be playing for the first time tonight. I hope the rule doesn't explain itself through play. Also curious, if this is the best thread for this question; it just lines up well becuase of your comment.


 
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Dan Hentschel
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The piece I think you are missing is that you lose a superlock at the end of each turn, but a lock is maintained from one turn to the next, so if you have already achieved a lock in a previous turn, you can use two cards to upgrade this lock to a superlock for the current turn.

Does this answer your question?

- dan
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Lee Fisher
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notyetsuperman wrote:
engelstein wrote:
grasa_total wrote:
1. Is breaking enemy locks a targeted action? If so, when do you decide how to use the points assigned to a target? (In other words, suppose Vengeance is locked on us, and we do not have a lock on it. We put one sensor target under it, and match that target. Do we get to decide whether to break the lock or acquire our own lock after the action round?)


You don't have to declare what you're going to use the points for until after you see how many you get, and actually have to resolve it during Step 4. You need to assign them to a particular target, but not the usage.

For example, you assign two target cards to Vengeance, planning to upgrade your Lock to a Superlock. You only find one piece during the Action Step. During Step 4 you decide to use your one Sensor point on Vengeance to Break it's lock on your ship. Note that you still have to use it on Vengeance - you can't switch it to Sensor Scan, for example.


Geoff thanks for replying.

To gain a lock costs one point, then to flip the token requires an additional two points (as I read the rules). This gives me the impression it costs a total of three points to super lock a target in a single turn (as confirmed in the rules as well). That would be fine, but the example in the rules shows only two cards being assigned to an enemy ship. You do the same in your typed example above. In both examples its implied that the reason you're using two sensor cards is to gain a super lock; especially since the points are reset each phase. I am confused.

Here are three scenarios, I believe Scenario 1 is accurate, the real problem is with the difference in scenario 2 vs 3. And scenario four is an open ended question.

Scenario 1:
No Lock Tokens in play but an enemy is locked on us. Two sensor cards, both solved; creates two points. 1 pt to place a lock token and the other point to lose the enemy lock.

Scenario 2:
No lock tokens in play, no enemy ships locked on us. Three cards, three solved creates three points. 1 point to apply a lock token, 2 pts to flip the token to super locked.

Or Scenario 3:
No lock tokens in play, no enemy ships locked on us. Two cards, two solved creates two points. 1 point to apply a lock token, 1 pt to flip the token to super locked.

Scenario 4:
Lock token in play, no enemy ships locked on us. How many cards would I have to solve to turn the already played lock token to flip it over to a super lock?

Thank you!
I will be playing for the first time tonight. I hope the rule doesn't explain itself through play. Also curious, if this is the best thread for this question; it just lines up well becuase of your comment.




1 and 2 seem OK.
3) does not have enough to superlock.
4) Would need two points to upgrade to superlock.
 
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Geoffrey Engelstein
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notyetsuperman wrote:
engelstein wrote:
grasa_total wrote:
1. Is breaking enemy locks a targeted action? If so, when do you decide how to use the points assigned to a target? (In other words, suppose Vengeance is locked on us, and we do not have a lock on it. We put one sensor target under it, and match that target. Do we get to decide whether to break the lock or acquire our own lock after the action round?)


You don't have to declare what you're going to use the points for until after you see how many you get, and actually have to resolve it during Step 4. You need to assign them to a particular target, but not the usage.

For example, you assign two target cards to Vengeance, planning to upgrade your Lock to a Superlock. You only find one piece during the Action Step. During Step 4 you decide to use your one Sensor point on Vengeance to Break it's lock on your ship. Note that you still have to use it on Vengeance - you can't switch it to Sensor Scan, for example.


Geoff thanks for replying.

To gain a lock costs one point, then to flip the token requires an additional two points (as I read the rules). This gives me the impression it costs a total of three points to super lock a target in a single turn (as confirmed in the rules as well). That would be fine, but the example in the rules shows only two cards being assigned to an enemy ship. You do the same in your typed example above. In both examples its implied that the reason you're using two sensor cards is to gain a super lock; especially since the points are reset each phase. I am confused.


If you take a look at the Sensors example on the bottom of page 13, you'll see that only 1 card is being assigned to the enemy ship, to get a lock. Two cards are assigned to the crystal (second slot). There's already a lock on the crystal, as mentioned in the text and shown on the diagram.

It is two points to upgrade a lock to a superlock. Remember that locks remain from turn to turn (except for Nebula, some damage cards, etc), so you can upgrade them to a Superlock.

Lock costs 1. Superlock costs 3. Upgrading Lock to Superlock costs 2.

Quote:
Here are three scenarios, I believe Scenario 1 is accurate, the real problem is with the difference in scenario 2 vs 3. And scenario four is an open ended question.

Scenario 1:
No Lock Tokens in play but an enemy is locked on us. Two sensor cards, both solved; creates two points. 1 pt to place a lock token and the other point to lose the enemy lock.


Yes, assuming you put both sensor cards under the enemy ship during Preparation.

Quote:
Scenario 2:
No lock tokens in play, no enemy ships locked on us. Three cards, three solved creates three points. 1 point to apply a lock token, 2 pts to flip the token to super locked.


Yes, again assuming you place all three cards under the same enemy ship. You'll note that it says on the sensor display that a superlock costs 3, so you don't actually place a lock and upgrade it. You just place a superlock. Just follow the chart on the sensor display and you should be fine.

Quote:
Or Scenario 3:
No lock tokens in play, no enemy ships locked on us. Two cards, two solved creates two points. 1 point to apply a lock token, 1 pt to flip the token to super locked.


No - it takes three to place a Superlock from nothing.

Quote:
Scenario 4:
Lock token in play, no enemy ships locked on us. How many cards would I have to solve to turn the already played lock token to flip it over to a super lock?


Two. See above.

Note also that whether enemy ships are locked onto you or not doesn't affect whether you can place a lock or superlock. It just gives you an option for another use for the sensor point.

Hope this helps! Let me know if there's anything else I can assist with.

You may also want to watch the tutorial videos (here and on the Stronghold site), and start with Training Mission Alpha (available here).

Geoff
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