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Subject: Fairly new player who's problem with someone just buying vicotry cards rss

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Tony Sanfilippo
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ISSAQUAH
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I Play with a certain person who seem to just get victory cards as soon she can and I always lose. Does not make much of a game. Any advice on how to put a kabash this, other than play better?
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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You should check Dominion threads for nearly countless explanations of why this strategy works against new players but fails miserably against almost anyone else.
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B C Z
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Do this too early and your deck clogs.

What victory condition is the game ending on?

Can you manipulate that game end to the other ending condition?

Would doing so help you get more points than are typically being scored?

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Wally Jones
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Got to love the original Dominion strategy.

Big gold + big points = win
 
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David desJardins
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If you're losing to the Estate/Estate opening then I wonder if you've got some rule wrong.
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Jeremy Lennert
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Can you be a bit more specific?

If the other player is buying a bunch of Estates and Duchies in the early game and you can't beat her, it does seem like you're likely missing something fundamental, because in most cases that is an extremely bad strategy and should be easy to beat.

If she's building her economy until she can buy Provinces and then buying all victory cards, well, that's probably not perfect play, but that's roughly how the end of most games look, and you might want to take that as a given and focus on the building-up part of the game for a while before exploring more exotic options.
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keso55 wrote:
I Play with a certain person who seem to just get victory cards as soon she can and I always lose. Does not make much of a game. Any advice on how to put a kabash this, other than play better?
Double check the following:

1) the game ends at the end of a turn when the Province pile if empty
OR
ANY 3 of the other piles are empty (e.g. no more Markets, Moats, and Villages)

2) If you buy Victory cards, they go into your deck just like any of the other cards (Copper, Silver, Militia, etc.)

If possible, please describe a sample game in more detail!
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D Stu
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keso55 wrote:
Any advice on how to put a kabash this, other than play better?

I'm afraid playing better is at least part of the solution...

So, from your description it seems as if you are facing someone who is playing a strategy called "BigMoney", meaning they only buy Silver, Gold and Provinces, whatever they can afford. Maybe Duchies in the late-game.

The first thing you have to realize is that they realized the game is (often) about getting many Provinces as fast as possible, and got a plan how to reach this goal. The advantage of this BigMoney is that it is decently strong, at least a lot stronger than buying the "wrong" kingdom cards, and it's not very likely you make mistakes while playing it.

Anyway, what you need is a better strategy than BigMoney. For first, there is BigMoney-X, meaning you basically play the same strategy, but add one or two kingdom cards to your mix. In the Base, strong Xs for this strategies include Smithy, Milita, Witch, Library. This will fasten your deck or slow the once of your opponents.

So, that is now not that much more fun than just playing BigMoney, but at least for first beat it, and get a feeling on how the games goes with it.


More advanced is going for a real engine. This is a bit harder, needs the right cards on the board and you can easily make mistakes. I don't want to describe here how to build it and what to take care of, but just point to Geronimoo's example for an engine in the "First Game"
http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/07/30/building-the-first-ga...
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Simon Kamber
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DStu wrote:
More advanced is going for a real engine. This is a bit harder, needs the right cards on the board and you can easily make mistakes. I don't want to describe here how to build it and what to take care of, but just point to Geronimoo's example for an engine in the "First Game"
http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/07/30/building-the-first-ga...


Which also demonstrates one of the weaknesses of the base game. On many boards, it is simply not feasible for casual players to design an engine that can match Big Money (+X).

Even the pretty well-tuned market/milita/village/smithy engine halfway through Geronimoo's post only manages around 50/50.
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D Stu
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On the other hand, this is not the strongest board also for Base Game for an engine, and ignoring the Remodel as this variant did is completely without trashing. Just Base has Chapel in 2 out of 5 games, which is of course a great enabler vs. Big Money, and this board doesn't have it.
It also doesn't have Gardens, which give additional points, and TR, which is great.

I agree that Base lacks the payloads that can completely explode in an engine vs. BigMoney scenario (Bridge, Bank, Coppersmith, Highway, Saboteur, Pirate Ship, Goons), but that's probably not the worst.


I agree that building an engine is usually significantly harder than just playing Big Money, but despite everybody saying it I still not really believe that is on average harder in Base than in random all (except Colonies and Goons). The engines might get stronger, but so do the BigMoney variants. Over all sets BM-Smithy is one of the weaker BM-X, and it is the strongest (I believe) in base. Vault, Embassy, Masquerade, Monument and many more kill the BM-Smithy in heads up, and many of them are also better against engines. Wharf might be a very strong card for engines, but it is also the strongest BM. It makesengines better, but you nevertheless have to know what to do, as BM-4Wharf does not give you much time to do it.
 
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Heckle Jekyll
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keso55 wrote:
I Play with a certain person who seem to just get victory cards as soon she can and I always lose. Does not make much of a game. Any advice on how to put a kabash this, other than play better?



That is interesting. I never considered that one could possibly win that way. I can't imagine how their hand is not getting jammed up. What kind of scores are you getting and what is the game ending condition?

It simply does not make sense me. Off to GOKO.com I go to give a a whirl and see whats up with that.


I simply don't believe this could happen often. If they are buying Victorys right from the getgo, they will most likely hardly be able to afford even one Duchy. The odds of getting 5 coppers will greatly diminish and most likely be possible if only on the starting two hands. And if they bought all the Estates, then you only need three Duchys to beat them. Even if they somehow managed to buy all the Estates and one Duchy (11 points), then you could still win with just two Provinces (12 points) or even just four duchy's (12 points). They could never possibly buy a Province either. It simply doesn't make sense.


Edit:

Ok , so I'm thinking maybe I am assuming something I shouldn't be. Does your friend buy anything else at all if she has a choice to buy a Victory Card instead? Does she buy a Victory Card every possible chance she gets? I can't believe it is possible for her to win if she did. And if that is the case, then she is playing poorly and you are playing worse than poorly.

I don't think I fully understand your question either, in the sense that you are asking what you can do to prevent her from winning with a poor strategy and you don't want an answer regarding better play. Your ownly other legal and ethical option is to simply not play.

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Tony Sanfilippo
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idiot crow wrote:
keso55 wrote:
I Play with a certain person who seem to just get victory cards as soon she can and I always lose. Does not make much of a game. Any advice on how to put a kabash this, other than play better?







Ok , so I'm thinking maybe I am assuming something I shouldn't be. Does your friend buy anything else at all if she has a choice to buy a Victory Card instead? Does she buy a Victory Card every possible chance she gets? I can't believe it is possible for her to win if she did. And if that is the case, then she is playing poorly and you are playing worse than poorly.


She seems to get Victory points when she can so I have come to the conclusion that I am playing very pooooorly and Don't know what I am doing. I am playing worse than poorly. soblue
 
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Drew Spencer
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keso55 wrote:
She seems to get Victory points when she can so I have come to the conclusion that I am playing very pooooorly and Don't know what I am doing. I am playing worse than poorly. soblue


If she really is buying victory points as soon as she can, and she's winning, I think you must be playing with some rules wrong.

Just to be clear, this is what a few sample turns of hers would look like:
Turn one: play three coins, buy Estate (deck is now 7 Coppers and 4 Estates)
Turn two: play four coins, buy Estate (deck is now 7 Coppers and 5 Estates)
(shuffle)
Turn three: play two coins, buy Estate (deck is now 7 Coppers and 6 Estates)
Turn four: play three coins, buy Estate (deck is now 7 Coppers and 7 Estates)
(shuffle)

...and so on. Right? Soon, most turns she should be getting one or two coins in hand only. So she buys all the Estates. Then what? Does she buy Coppers?

Meanwhile, what exactly are you buying on your turns?
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Heckle Jekyll
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keso55 wrote:
idiot crow wrote:
keso55 wrote:
I Play with a certain person who seem to just get victory cards as soon she can and I always lose. Does not make much of a game. Any advice on how to put a kabash this, other than play better?







Ok , so I'm thinking maybe I am assuming something I shouldn't be. Does your friend buy anything else at all if she has a choice to buy a Victory Card instead? Does she buy a Victory Card every possible chance she gets? I can't believe it is possible for her to win if she did. And if that is the case, then she is playing poorly and you are playing worse than poorly.


She seems to get Victory points when she can so I have come to the conclusion that I am playing very pooooorly and Don't know what I am doing. I am playing worse than poorly. soblue


When I go back it appears that what I said was not so nice, it wasn't meant that way, sorry. blush

However, it may be that she only appears to be buying just victory cards when she actually is buying lots of Treasure and you are not noticing that. When I play I often fail to notice everything someone else buys and it can be detrimental to only be in your own little world when you're playing Dominion.

By the way, I see that you say you are 66 and have recently engaged in an interest in games as a hobby. Very nice to see that, I wish that my family elders engaged in board gaming.
 
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Tony Sanfilippo
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.




Quote:
When I go back it appears that what I said was not so nice, it wasn't meant that way, sorry. blush

However, it may be that she only appears to be buying just victory cards when she actually is buying lots of Treasure and you are not noticing that. When I play I often fail to notice everything someone else buys and it can be detrimental to only be in your own little world when you're playing Dominion.

By the way, I see that you say you are 66 and have recently engaged in an interest in games as a hobby. Very nice to see that, I wish that my family elders engaged in board gaming.
No, I didn't not feel that you were harsh because I am not easily offended. I have been able to get a couple of me people in my age group to play, but it is hard to get people to open their mind and get away from Pinocle, or Bridge and of course family is a lost cause. They won't even give it a try. The truth of the matter is, I lose most games . Coming in second last is unfortunately a celebration, but I love playing. Play about 3-4 times a week I am addicted to getting new games, but I have to lie to my wife because I am on a limited income. I need to concentrate more on what my friend is doing instead of just thinking about what I am doing. Thanks for the advice
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