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Subject: How do you shuffle your deck? rss

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David Van den Eynde
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Question is, how do you shuffle your pile after adding the aging card?
While playing, you can put nice cards together in the discard pile, don't shuffle that well, and hope the combo comes back the next round.


I use the pile shuffle, 3 or 4 piles (byebye combo):


Or?


Or?


Or?
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Richard Morris
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david72 wrote:
While playing, you can put nice cards together in the discard pile, don't shuffle that well, and hope the combo comes back the next round.
This approach is know in the trade as cheating.
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Russ Williams
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david72 wrote:
Question is, how do you shuffle your pile after adding the aging card?
While playing, you can put nice cards together in the discard pile, don't shuffle that well, and hope the combo comes back the next round.

Which is obviously cheating. Of course the intent of shuffling is obviously to mix the cards quite well, so that all possible card orderings are equally likely.

(In practice, I do some diverse overhand shuffling, followed by a stack shuffle - dealing the cards into 6 separate stacks, then stacking those stacks (which also has the benefit of letting me simultaneously count how many cards are in the deck) - followed by some more diverse overhand shuffling. I usually avoid riffle shuffling cards to avoid wear.)

I'm reminded of the guy who thought stacking the deck and not shuffling well in Dominion was a legitimate tactic.
Is There Any Rules Problem With this Shady Tactic?

A related thread of possible interest:
Initial shuffle statistics
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Friedemann Friese
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Hanabi (Abacus german version) Page 5, last sentence:

"Spielen Sie so, dass es Ihnen Spaß macht."

Play it that way, that you have fun with it.

This is so true for every game out there.
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David Van den Eynde
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OK, forget what I said about hoping the combos will come back.

Question remains, how do you guys shuffle the cards?
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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russ wrote:
I'm reminded of the guy who thought stacking the deck and not shuffling well in Dominion was a legitimate tactic.
Is There Any Rules Problem With this Shady Tactic?

And the guy who tuned his deck in Combat Commander: Fate deck was not “stacked”

david72 wrote:
Question remains, how do you guys shuffle the cards?

It depends on how many cards are in the discard pile.
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Rob Rob
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This brings up a question. While I think it's obvious you should, do the rues state you must shuffle a discard deck (action or hazard) before replenishing the pile?
 
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David
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Robrob wrote:
This brings up a question. While I think it's obvious you should, do the rues state you must shuffle a discard deck (action or hazard) before replenishing the pile?


Yes. Regarding the hazard stack, rules for action 4 say:

"At the beginning of a new phase shuffle the hazard discard pile and continue again with action 1 (draw two hazard cards)."

And regarding the Robinson stack:

"... until the Robinson stack is depleted. Then, you must take the topmost face down aging card from the aging stack and shuffle it into the fighting cards. Place all cards back on the storage board as the new Robinson stack and draw the remaining cards."
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N S.
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The lack of any standard for how well you should shuffle is a problem I have with deck building games generally, though it doesn't keep me from enjoying them (the few that I like, that is).
 
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Richard Morris
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Noahboa wrote:
The lack of any standard for how well you should shuffle is a problem I have with deck building games generally, though it doesn't keep me from enjoying them (the few that I like, that is).
Eh? What lack of standard? Shuffle means rearrange the cars so that they are randomly positioned in your deck, and you have no idea which cards are where or which cards are next to each other. You do not have to specify 'properly - please do not cheat' in the rules, that is implicit.
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David Van den Eynde
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I agree with Noah Sheola, when is enough?

That's why I like playing Dominion online, then the shuffle really is random (still depends on the programmers skills).

I always create 3-4 piles, and then shuffle them a bit. Should be random enough.
 
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David Bate
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Picture:
1 A favourite of mine.
2 Hmm bends cards more than I want.
3 Only for rich people . . .
4 Arggghh at the backs will be randomly aligned in the deck

A few manual shuffles with cards from the upper hand going to the front and back of the evolving pile in the lower. Cut the pack deal into piles, shuffle each pile and pick up. Should be thorough enough.

Or just a manual shuffle while absently talking for 30 seconds or so for a quick shuffle.
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Russ Williams
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AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
Noahboa wrote:
The lack of any standard for how well you should shuffle is a problem I have with deck building games generally, though it doesn't keep me from enjoying them (the few that I like, that is).
Eh? What lack of standard? Shuffle means rearrange the cars so that they are randomly positioned in your deck, and you have no idea which cards are where or which cards are next to each other. You do not have to specify 'properly - please do not cheat' in the rules, that is implicit.

Indeed this seems analogous to rules not specifying how large or what shape of a table you should use to play on: it's obvious that the specific table dimensions don't matter, and that any table which fulfills the goal of providing enough space conveniently is fine. Indeed since different people own and like different kinds of tables, it would be silly for rules to require (e.g.) a circular wooden table with a diameter of 150cm.

Similarly, the specifics of your shuffling method don't matter, and any shuffle method which fulfills the goal of randomly mixing the cards is fine. Indeed since different people prefer or are competent at different ways of shuffling, it would be silly for rules to require (e.g.) 5 riffle shuffles followed by a cut by the player to your left since (e.g.) some people don't know how to riffle shuffle or choose not to due to it wearing out cards quicker.

If you notice that in practice cards which you played/discarded together before the shuffle keep showing up together now, then obviously your shuffling technique is inadequate in practice. So improve it however you like, either by a change of technique or by more repetitions of whatever you're currently doing.

Otherwise it doesn't matter how you attain the goal of a random card ordering. The goal is the important thing, not the method. Do some riffle shuffles, or do some pile shuffles, or do some overhand shuffles, or spread and swirl them all together on the table, or split your deck and give them to friends to shuffle then combine them back together, or combine several of these, or do whatever floats your boat and achieves the obviously intended result of a random ordering of your cards.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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david72 wrote:
I agree with Noah Sheola, when is enough?

How many inches must a die travel when you roll it? How many times must it strike the table?
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David Bate
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Sphere wrote:
david72 wrote:
I agree with Noah Sheola, when is enough?

How many inches must a die travel when you roll it? How many times must it strike the table?


This is starting to sound like a Bob Dylan song.

How many inches most a die roll down
Before it's legally rolled?
How many strikes must white 2d6 sail
Before the number can be told?
....
....
The answer my friend is throw it to the wind
The question is giving me the wind.


Sorry read too many MAD magazines as a teenager.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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wrrlykam wrote:
Sorry read too many MAD magazines as a teenager.

That's not possible, is it?
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David Bate
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Sphere wrote:
wrrlykam wrote:
Sorry read too many MAD magazines as a teenager.

That's not possible, is it?


The damage is accumulative including re-reads too.
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John Breckenridge
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wrrlykam wrote:
Sorry read too many MAD magazines as a teenager.


If that were really the case, you'd give the cover of the box the Mad Fold-In (tm) treatment, and notice that it says:
"Fried
FRY

A Sole"


Definitely something fishy going on.
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