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Thunderstone Advance: Caverns of Bane» Forums » Rules

Subject: Xobmokt and discarding rss

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Compy Dino
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So,
I've been wondering if buying a card or leveling a hero counts as "discard before end of turn", because the cards need to be placed on the "discard pile" afterall.
If yes, that'll mean you cannot upgrade your deck anymore once Xobmokt is out in the open.
 
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Will M. Baker
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"Discarding" means to place a card from your hand onto your discard pile. It is not considered a discard if the card comes from somewhere else (e.g. draw deck, disease deck, familiar deck, hero or village stack).

Edit: And otherwise, you also couldn't defeat a monster, since that also goes into your discard!
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Joke Dyckmans
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When Xobmokt is in the hall and you let another player discard a card, is that card also destroyed?
 
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Will M. Baker
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Evangelien wrote:
When Xobmokt is in the hall and you let another player discard a card, is that card also destroyed?


E.g. by using a thief against them, to force them to discard a card? Yes, I'd say it is destroyed. Vicious.
 
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Joke Dyckmans
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Thank you!
 
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Joke Dyckmans
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What about Xobmokt + ritual of cleansing?
The ritual of cleansing says discard cards, so....??
 
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Joke Dyckmans
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I'm still not sure how to understand the words 'before the end of his turn' on the Xobmokt card. When player A lets player B discard cards, is it possible that these cards are not destroyed because it's not even player B's turn?
Since it's not player B's turn, the words 'before the end of his turn' don't make sense and mean nothing?
 
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Will M. Baker
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Evangelien wrote:
I'm still not sure how to understand the words 'before the end of his turn' on the Xobmokt card. When player A lets player B discard cards, is it possible that these cards are not destroyed because it's not even player B's turn?
Since it's not player B's turn, the words 'before the end of his turn' don't make sense and mean nothing?


In the English version, it's worded "...before the end of the turn...", which is more generic. I'd argue that yes, because this is a global effect, if I discard cards at any time other than the end of the turn (regardless of whose turn it is), then that card gets destroyed.

For Ritual of Cleansing and any other card worded to "discard" cards from a player's deck, I think we'd need a ruling on this. I shouldn't have stated my 12/6 comment so authoritatively, as I don't think there is yet a workable definition for "discard". The Towers of Ruin glossary defines it as:

p.33 wrote:
Put a card in your discard pile.
.

That's so expansive it would include newly bought cards, leveled heroes, and defeated monsters, so Xobmokt would basically bring the game to a grinding halt. And, as you say, cards like Ritual of Cleansing would become bombs we could drop on opposing players.
 
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Joke Dyckmans
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Yes, you're totally right, it says the turn.
We should indeed find a good definition of the word discard..
Thank you for your quick response!
 
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Jim . K
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darquil wrote:
Evangelien wrote:
I'm still not sure how to understand the words 'before the end of his turn' on the Xobmokt card. When player A lets player B discard cards, is it possible that these cards are not destroyed because it's not even player B's turn?
Since it's not player B's turn, the words 'before the end of his turn' don't make sense and mean nothing?


In the English version, it's worded "...before the end of the turn...", which is more generic. I'd argue that yes, because this is a global effect, if I discard cards at any time other than the end of the turn (regardless of whose turn it is), then that card gets destroyed.

For Ritual of Cleansing and any other card worded to "discard" cards from a player's deck, I think we'd need a ruling on this. I shouldn't have stated my 12/6 comment so authoritatively, as I don't think there is yet a workable definition for "discard". The Towers of Ruin glossary defines it as:

p.33 wrote:
Put a card in your discard pile.
.

That's so expansive it would include newly bought cards, leveled heroes, and defeated monsters, so Xobmokt would basically bring the game to a grinding halt. And, as you say, cards like Ritual of Cleansing would become bombs we could drop on opposing players.



Hi, I'm new to the table regarding this game - love it's intricacies - But i'd really love to know what the official line is on this cards' global effect. IS it ALL discards i.e. all level ups, use of familiars, anything indeed that results in a card being placed in a discard pile, or is it limited to only cards that are discarded from your hand, or even, only cards discarded during a visit to the dungeon? At the moment, I don't choose to play with Xobmokt as I can't seem to find any official answerthat confirms the strength of this global effect.

J
 
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Will M. Baker
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This is an official ruling from the design team, and supersedes my speculation above.

Official Ruling wrote:
Xobmokt’s effect only affects cards discarded from a player’s hand (including cards that are present, i.e., face-up in front of the player).


Affected
• When the active player discards a card from hand, i.e., moves the card from their own hand to their own discard pile. A 'hand' includes any cards face up in front of a player, e.g., familiars lingering from a previous turn; thus a familiar discarded before the end of the turn would be affected (e.g., Lesser Phoenix, Imp).
• When another player (not the active player) discards a card from hand, i.e., moves the card from their own hand to their own discard pile (e.g., because required to by Lorigg, or choosing to for Blazing Grimalkin).

Not Affected
• Defeating a monster (or otherwise moving a monster from the dungeon to anywhere else).
• Gaining a disease.
• Buying a card from the village.
• Leveling up a hero.
• Revealing and discarding cards from the top of your deck (e.g., with Patternmage, Backpack, Plunderwing, Shadow Torment).
• Moving a card from a player's hand to anywhere other than that player's discard pile (e.g., Summon Storm being placed on top of the player's deck, or Silvertongue giving a card to another player's hand/discard pile [ruling pending]).
• Placing a card out of play (e.g., with Grim).

Edge Cases
• Dredging Net, as worded, draws cards into a player's hand. Thus the 1 card that is discarded would be affected.
• When Gohlen L3 and L4 require other players to discard a monster, those monsters would be affected. However, because those monsters are affected and destroyed, Gohlen would not be able to claim them via his Spoils ability.
• When Aird Seductress returns a borrowed card to the owner's discard pile, the card would not be destroyed (the active player isn't discarding it, but rather is returning it).

[Edit:]
Additional Edge Cases
• Magic Shield allows a player to "Ignore 1 effect that requires you to destroy or discard cards this turn." Xobmokt's effect would be eligible to be ignored.
• Shield Bearer could react to discarded heroes being destroyed, destroying himself in their place. The heroes would still be discarded.
• Bracers of Defense reads, "Trophy: When a hero would be destroyed or discarded, discard this card instead." Thus when a player attempts to discard their first hero (which precedes Xobmokt's destruction), they must instead discard the Bracers of Defense, which would then be destroyed by Xobmokt's effect.
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Jim . K
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this is very helpful to know, thanks
 
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