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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: FFG X-Wing vs WotC Starship Battles rss

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xffan 2000

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I searched for comparisons/reviews between FFG's X-Wing game and the old (short-lived) WotC Starship Battles, but haven't been able to find anything.

Has anybody played both? Is X-Wing significantly better/different? If so, how and why?

I've read numerous reviews and watched videos on gameplay for X-Wing and I really want to like the game. But after dropping so much money on Starship Battles -- which turned out to be an absolutely awful game -- I'm reluctant to buy X-Wing, thinking it will disappoint me just like Starship Battles.

Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Paul DeStefano
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The reason there has been no comparisons is that there is none.

X-Wing is an incredibly fun game.

Starship Battles is crap.
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Josh Derksen
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Geosphere wrote:
The reason there has been no comparisons is that there is none.

X-Wing is an incredibly fun game.

Starship Battles is crap.


Agree 100%.
WotC decided they wanted to sell a bunch of starship miniatures and scribbled out a "game" to go with them.

X-Wing, on the other hand has nicer models and is actually fun (and very strategic!) to play.
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Robert M.
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armoredgear7 wrote:
WotC decided they wanted to sell a bunch of starship miniatures and scribbled out a "game" to go with them.

X-Wing, on the other hand has nicer models and is actually fun (and very strategic!) to play.

This. I played Starship Battles at my FLGS a couple of times, although I didn't own any of the minis because the game mechanics were uninteresting and the minis themselves were... not good.

X-Wing, on the other hand, started with solid mechanics, and layered really good-looking minis on top of them.

It's a fun, addictive game with solid and fiarly intuitive mechanics--and, in my admittedly VERY limited experience with other tabletop wargames, it's about 1/4 the price and runs in about 1/2 or 1/3 of the time.
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Luis Fernandez
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don´t be so mean with Star Wars Miniatures: Starship Battles it was a OK game for his era, and i regret not purchasing more boosters, the ships were good detailed but the fighters detailed enough but since they were thin they get deformed in the booster.

The game mechanic was pretty simple, a simplification of the great rules of the A&A Naval Battles, were the ships always shoot (this time with the very random d20) and the fighters made their job against other fighters or striking cruisers, was not a game of Dogfighting like X-wing but a fleet game, i really miss it and sad they didn´t make up for the next expansion.
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Jon Quinn
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Geosphere wrote:
The reason there has been no comparisons is that there is none.

X-Wing is an incredibly fun game.

Starship Battles is crap.


I believe what you wrote is a comparison. So now there is at least one.
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Michael Taylor
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xffan_2000 wrote:
Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks!


Geosphere is basically right.

Though I have found that the Off the Grid rules make SSB a lot more fun to play (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/683565/off-the-grid-tabltop-...).

It actually makes for a pretty good game with only minor rule additions.

I'll still use SSB/OtG when I have ships that aren't out for X-Wing (for example the Clone Wars era ships) and for battles where I have more than say 25 ships on a side.

I don't think X-Wing will ever be able to handle that many.

I spent quite a few bucks on SSB myself, so I feel your pain.

But the big ships are nice and still usable with X-Wing.

But I've got a bunch of TIE fighters I'm just plain embarrassed to own!

But basically there is no contest - as long as you accept that X-Wing is ONLY for Starfighter combat and not capital ships.
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Matthew Bysouth
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There's no doubt that X Wing is better than all other types of similar Star Wars themed games I've seen but what I'm a little surprised at is that no-one has posted much about proxying models from other games and ranges whilst they build up their X Wing collections, which are pretty expensive when many people already have quite a lot of star wars toys and minis etc... lying around gathering dust (or, like me, being destroyed...ummm I mean played with.... by their children cry).
 
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Joe Reil
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cauldronofevil wrote:
But basically there is no contest - as long as you accept that X-Wing is ONLY for Starfighter combat and not capital ships.


Yeah, they're really for different things. For better "Fleet" rules there are a couple 'generic' systems that can handle Star Wars really well (Full Thrust and Starmada are among my favorites, but there are quite a few others out there).

Interestingly, I had some (very low-key) debates on the merits of SSB when it came out and one of the arguments was that it was intended to be simple and the limitations were necessary for that.

I didn't really accept that argument, but X-wing blows it out of the water - X-wing isn't any heavier or more complicated than SSB, but there is a real game under all the chrome, unlike SSB (IMO).
 
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Michael Taylor
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Mahler wrote:
There's no doubt that X Wing is better than all other types of similar Star Wars themed games I've seen but what I'm a little surprised at is that no-one has posted much about proxying models from other games and ranges whilst they build up their X Wing collections, which are pretty expensive when many people already have quite a lot of star wars toys and minis etc... lying around gathering dust (or, like me, being destroyed...ummm I mean played with.... by their children cry).


Seems pretty obvious to me. There's no toys even remotely close to the quality of the X-Wing ships.

Though I have made cards and dials for all my Micro Machines!
 
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xffan 2000

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Thanks for the opinions.

Good to know that it has good mechanics, unlike SSB. And the dog-fights between a few ships appeal much more than dealing with the huge tankers. More "intense," if you will.

I'll go ahead and get the X-Wing starter and give it a shot...besides, the Millennium Falcon is coming out soon.
 
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Joe Reil
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xffan_2000 wrote:
Good to know that it has good mechanics, unlike SSB. And the dog-fights between a few ships appeal much more than dealing with the huge tankers. More "intense," if you will.


Heh. I'm a sucker for a good fleet game - I have a hard time thinking of fighters dogfighting without the context of two fleets moving against each other, so I was kind of the opposite: X-wing was a bit of a hard sell for me, but I like it anyway.
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Michael Taylor
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xffan_2000 wrote:
Good to know that it has good mechanics, unlike SSB. And the dog-fights between a few ships appeal much more than dealing with the huge tankers. More "intense," if you will.


I tend to agree with RedShark92, fleet battles are very cool, but I haven't found very many good ones.

And there's just not really good way to mix the fighters and capital ships without the fighters just being a different form of cannon.

Overall, I think SSB/OtG does the best job for the kind of fleet battles that I want.

Fast, involved enough to be fun, tactics make a difference, but not as sluggish, naval and paperwork intense as other fleet games (Starmada/Full Thrust, etc. or the others that are typically recommended).

So I wouldn't say it's one or the other, but just different needs for different types of games.

Since I like both types of games, I'm more than willing to play both!


 
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Joe Reil
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cauldronofevil wrote:
I tend to agree with RedShark92, fleet battles are very cool, but I haven't found very many good ones.


Well I did say the first one, but not the second. There are several fleet-scale games that are good to great, at varying levels of complexity (Babylon 5 Wars, Starmada and Full Thrust come to mind).

Quote:
And there's just not really good way to mix the fighters and capital ships without the fighters just being a different form of cannon.


I disagree with this. All of the fleet systems I mentioned include fighters and make them feel quite a bit different than just another gone attached to a ship's hull. By necessity you're usually treating groups of fighters (usually around 6) as one "unit" and you're not dealing with the specifics of maneuvering that you get in a dogfighting game like X-wing, but all of the systems I cited work well for my money.

Quote:
Overall, I think SSB/OtG does the best job for the kind of fleet battles that I want.


Not familiar with OTG. I found SSB to be a total failure (but that's IMO, of course).

Quote:
Fast, involved enough to be fun, tactics make a difference, but not as sluggish, naval and paperwork intense as other fleet games (Starmada/Full Thrust, etc. or the others that are typically recommended).


YMMV, but I find that while Starmada and FT can bog down with massive fleets, I've found them far from "sluggish" when you keep the forces down to a reasonable size (this is even more true of Starmada with the newest version of the system). There are also other systems out there that abstract things out even more if you want to run massive battles.

Quote:
So I wouldn't say it's one or the other, but just different needs for different types of games.
 
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Michael Taylor
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RedShark92 wrote:
Well I did say the first one, but not the second. There are several fleet-scale games that are good to great, at varying levels of complexity (Babylon 5 Wars, Starmada and Full Thrust come to mind).

I disagree with this. All of the fleet systems I mentioned include fighters and make them feel quite a bit different than just another gone attached to a ship's hull. By necessity you're usually treating groups of fighters (usually around 6) as one "unit" and you're not dealing with the specifics of maneuvering that you get in a dogfighting game like X-wing, but all of the systems I cited work well for my money.

Not familiar with OTG. I found SSB to be a total failure (but that's IMO, of course).


No, I didn't mean to imply that you said that - that was me only. I haven't tried Babylon 5 Wars, but I tried Starmada and Full Thrust for Star Wars and they were both too tedious and didn't seem to have a 'Star Wars' feel to me. I know that's subjective, but that's the way it was for me.

OtG is a really good modification for SSB. It keeps all of the things I liked about SSB and adds a few things that makes it more fun and tactical.

It comes out to about exactly the amount of speed and detail I want for fleet battles. So much so that unless invited to play by a group I really trust, I'll stick to SSB/OtG as my Star Wars Fleet game.

Needless to say, if you've already tried and liked Starmada/Full Thrust or Call to Arms and liked them, then you probably wouldn't like SSB/OtG.

If you (like me) did try them and haven't liked them or wanted to try something closer to X-Wing than any of those systems, I think it's worth a try.

YMMV
 
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Joe Reil
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cauldronofevil wrote:
No, I didn't mean to imply that you said that - that was me only. I haven't tried Babylon 5 Wars, but I tried Starmada and Full Thrust for Star Wars and they were both too tedious and didn't seem to have a 'Star Wars' feel to me. I know that's subjective, but that's the way it was for me.


Of course it's subjective, and there's nothing wrong with that at all! I do disagree with the assertion that those systems are not "good" when what you meant is they're just not for you, because they are well thought out systems that do what they intend to do very well.

If you don't like FT or Starmada because they are too heavy then you would definitely not like Babylon 5 Wars. It was significantly more complicated and heavy than either of those. Not quite to the Starfleet Battles level, but definitely in that direction.

Quote:
If you (like me) did try them and haven't liked them or wanted to try something closer to X-Wing than any of those systems, I think it's worth a try.


What I like about X-wing is that the rules are simple and it plays relatively quickly, but even with that there is a real game there and it rewards real tactical decision-making. SSB is also simple and fast, but I didn't really find it to be interesting or challenging at all on a tactical level. I have not tried OTG.

Quote:
YMMV


Of course, and likewise!
 
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Michael Taylor
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RedShark92 wrote:
I do disagree with the assertion that those systems are not "good" when what you meant is they're just not for you, because they are well thought out systems that do what they intend to do very well.


My apologies, I forgot that some people forget that when I'm speaking or writing, I'm not actually channeling someone else!

But by my definition of good (game plays within 2 hours, no paper record-keeping, no pointless, tedious chrome) then no, those games aren't good. Maybe in the 70's and 80's they could be considered 'good', but not today.

If other people think they are good, that's okay with me. They can be wrong all they want.


RedShark92 wrote:
What I like about X-wing is that the rules are simple and it plays relatively quickly, but even with that there is a real game there and it rewards real tactical decision-making. SSB is also simple and fast, but I didn't really find it to be interesting or challenging at all on a tactical level. I have not tried OTG.


I couldn't agree more. But having played it with OtG, I think it fixes the main problems with SBB, which were:

1. Unlimited range for weapons.
2. Luck of the dice.
3. Fragility of ships (especially captial ships)
4. Command counter systems.

OtG fixes those by:
1. Range limitations based on Class.
2. Allowing every ship to use Command Cards.
3. Adds Sheilds and Force Saves.
4. Replacing the Command Counter system with Command Cards.

Now admittedly for most players X-Wing will do the job just fine, but I *do* like way it plays now better than any other fleet starship combat system I've played and yeah, I have a lot of ships!

So I think it's still worth checking out if you haven't found something else you like.

After all, since it only takes a few changes to make SSB into a good game, it's a good choice for those looking for capital ships.

Now it would be REALLY intersting if someone tried to modify X-Wing for capital ships...but I'll leave that as an excercise for the reader...



 
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DoctorMike Reddy
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cauldronofevil wrote:


I'll still use SSB/OtG when I have ships that aren't out for X-Wing (for example the Clone Wars era ships)

Someone used X-Wing and Clone Wars in the same sentence. Clone Wars leads to I-III. I-III leads to JarJar. That leads to Hate. Hate leads to The Dark Side.
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I collected a set of SSB and never played it once. I did complete my set though and even have extra Slave 1s (one of each).

So, there's that accomplishment off the checklist.
 
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