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Subject: AP SR limitations rss

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Gabriel Knight
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Phillip,

Rules indicate that you can only SR from the Reserve Box if SR would be possible from a (full) supply source of that country to that location. It also mentions that Beachheads are ports (so, sea SR!).

Situation: the AP has a BR division in Lemnos, a Beachhead in Salonika Bay and controls Salonika and Florina (a BR unit is in Florina). There is no doubt that the AP can MOVE (OP) that division from Lemnos to Florina, using the BH.

Question: can the AP SR that same division from Lemnos (or from the RB) to Florina (by land, though the BH) or does it have to stop at Salonika (because it has to use sea SR)?

TIA,
GK
 
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Tom Slizewski
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You certainly can SR from the RB to any space in which you have a same nationality unit that's in full supply.

The "land route" part of the question is interesting and I could see it going either way. I would think you could.
 
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Kevin Anderson
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Couldn't find anything definitive myself but I know that Beachheads can count as "spaces".
My guess would be an SR the short distance to Florina from Lemnos would be fine but an SR from the RB would have to stop in Salonika or the beachhead.
 
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Gabriel Knight
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IQTom wrote:
You certainly can SR from the RB to any space in which you have a same nationality unit that's in full supply.

The "land route" part of the question is interesting and I could see it going either way. I would think you could.


Not quite. According to 13.1: "SR by a given nation from the Reserve Box is only allowed if the space is one to which a unit could have moved by SR from a supply source or capital of that nation".

If BHs don't create a land route for SR (only for movement), the BR div SRing from Lemnos would have to stop at Salonika, using sea SR. And if it can´t reach Florina from Lemnos, it can't reach it from your RB as well, right?
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Tom Slizewski
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Technically, by rules as written, it appears you could SR neither from the RB or Lemnos to Florina per your example since you can't SR along dotted lines.

In all the time I've been playing, even in games vs. Phil, I believe SRing into the Balkans from RB has been allowed. I don't believe the rule is meant to be as strict as it is written.

If the rule holds as written it makes that supply source in India very important as without it the AP could not SR into Russia or Persia. If the Turks take Baluchistan that would mean no non-Russian AP SR from RB into Persia/Russia.

On the other point, you can SR into a desert space, you just can't continue out of a desert space without benefit of RR, so there are a couple of spaces that a supplied unit could not get reinf. from the reserve box.
 
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Philip Thomas
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More than a couple of spaces- the whole of Egypt for the Central Powers for example.

Back to the original question: Technically, RAW, SR is not possible from Lemnos to Florina (as it is along dotted lines), or from the Reserve to Florina (by the same logic).

However, it is very rarely played like that. I will be looking at how to Erratta this but for now a temporary house rule that ports count as full supply sources for the Allies from the point of view of SR from the reserve box is advised.
 
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Technically, RAW, SR is not possible from Lemnos to Florina (as it is along dotted lines), or from the Reserve to Florina (by the same logic).

However, it is very rarely played like that. I will be looking at how to Erratta this ...


What about just removing the word "solid" from 13.6?

My rationale as follows - these connections are dotted:

1) Lemnos to shore via beachheads;
2) Cyprus to shore via beachheads;
3) Bahrain to shore via beachheads;
4) Eregli - Adana;
5) Mamure Station - Aleppo;
6) Ismailia - Romani - El Arish - Gaza;
7) The connections around The Hejaz, Aqaba and Damascus;
8) The connections in the desert between Siwa Oasis and Cairo/Khartoum; and
9) The Gallipoli straits.

The first three are the ones you want to (officially) allow now.

Numbers 4, 5 and 6 become railroad connections after play of the applicable events. However, I don't think anybody has ever restricted pre-event SCU SR over 4 and 5, and 6 would be regulated by the desert SR rules anyway, so you're not opening for any abuses there.

Numbers 7 and 8 are mostly only passable by irregulars, who can't use SR anyway, and the connections that are passable by Turks (Aqaba - Yenbo - Jiddah - Medina - Mecca) are through the desert anyway.

Only number 9 presents a tangible addition to SR capabilities, so here's my suggested update of the first paragraph of 13.6:

Quote:
A unit may SR from its space to any other friendly, supplied space via lines (including green lines) or colored railroads listing the unit's nation.

If you don't want SR ferry traffic, add a fifth bullet to the list below it:

Quote:
* The route may not cross a strait (see 3.1.5.2)
 
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Philip Thomas
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Seems reasonable enough. Although it doesn't fix the problem if the Allies are using a port which is not connected through a beach-head.
 
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Gabriel Knight
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Seems reasonable enough. Although it doesn't fix the problem if the Allies are using a port which is not connected through a beach-head.


Philip,

I am not really sure this limitation is a problem. And, well, if it is, this isn't new, it has actually been in force for at least 2 years, after your ruling in this thread:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/4692241#4692241

And that is how I have been playing as the AP so far (3 games in the Tourney as AP).

My doubt referred specifically to BHs. The rules mention that a BH allows to treat its space "as a normal space", so I tought this might also means to treat it like a space connected by solid lines. I had high hopes that BHs could then help the AP to be less limited SRing.

I have also wondered if that SR limitation was really intended when the SR rules changed. But then the CP at least started to have a reason to try to take supply sources like India. A CP controlled Khartum, for instance, generates limitation on AP SRs within Egypt (to non-port spaces) and I think that is fine. I saw the relevance of controlling supply sources as the AP as something good.

Then the same could be said about the importance of BHs. Let´s think about the Balkans, which I see as critical. The question is: should the AP have the same freedom of SR controlling only ports as with a BH in place connecting Greece to Lemnos (particularly after the fall of Serbia)?

In the end, I think I support Thy´s idea to allow SR over non-solid lines. Another idea would be to allow BHs to create a land route (allowing SRs throught dotted lines connected to a BH). In both cases, the importance of placing BHs will be raised, and I think that is also good.
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