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Subject: Pick me apart rss

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Trenden Flanigan
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Here are my top builds for a 100 point squad for the Kessel Run. Please pick apart their strengths and weaknesses for me and help me choose! Thanks!

Imperial Option 1:

Darth Vader w/Swarm Tactics & Cluster Missles
"Howlrunner" w/Swarm Tactics
"Mauler Mithel"
"Backstabber"
Academy Pilot

Plan to pair Howlrunner/Mauler Mithel and Vader/Academy Pilot in attack groups for swarm benefits. Start Backstabber alone off to the side and use 4s and 5s to get behind fast.


Imperial Option 2:

"Howlrunner" w/Swarm Tactics
"Mauler Mithel" w/Swarm Tactics
Black Squadron Pilot w/Swarm Tactics
Black Squadron Pilot w/Swarm Tactics
Black Squadron Pilot w/Swarm Tactics (Or "Backstabber")
Obsidian Squadron Pilot

Everyone is just a Swarm tactic horde up the middle, all attacking early and together after chaining Swarm Tactics. (Yes, this one would suck after killing off Howlrunner and Mauler Mithel, but fielding 6 ships? I don't know... I just wanted to throw this one out there and see.)


Imperial Option 3:

Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
"Backstabber"

Just sheer numbers. Easy targets, but there are lots of them. Can't possibly hit all at once.

-------------------------------------

Rebel Option 1:

Wedge Antilles w/Swarm Tactics
Biggs Darklighter
Rookie Pilot
Gold Squadron w/ion cannon

Use Biggs to keep Wedge alive and Swarm tactics to kill TIEs before they attack. Fly together for most of the game, using ion cannon for the rear.


Rebel Option 2:

Wedge Antilles w/Swarm Tactics, Proton Torpedoes & R5-D8
"Dutch" Vander w/ion cannon, proton torpedoes & R5-K6
Biggs Darklighter w/R2-F2

Plan to keep in constant formation (Biggs in the back) the whole time and use ion cannon to stop random TIEs from out maneuvering to the back. Attack synergy between Dutch and Wedge.


Rebel Option 3:

Rookie Pilot
Rookie Pilot
Rookie Pilot
Gold Squadron Pilot
Gold Squadron Pilot w/R2 astromech

Just sheer number of rebel ships. Pretend I'm imperial, but with ships that have more HP.


What do you think? Which is the best option? What would you choose and why?
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Bob Smithy

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I like rebel no.1 the best, and might just steal that idea for my local tourney. It's got great attacking power, and a quasi-first turn wedge takedown preventer.
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Jeff Dunford
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Imperial 1 is almost exactly what I'm taking... except I put Squad Leader on Vader to give an action to the ship that needs it most (probably give Howlrunner both Evade and Focus if it's in range of 2+ opposing ships). Also, I intend to keep them together to focus fire on any Rebel ship sporting R2-D2, R2-F2, Biggs or Wedge - e.g. take out the toughest threat (or protection of that threat) as early as possible.

P.S. I don't have enough Swarm Tactics to run #2, nor enough TIES to run #3.
 
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Dave Weiss
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I'd stay away from both of your #3s.

Imp 3 with 1 unique means that the unique is going to be the primary target, which wastes those points unless you're shooting for a biggs-light tactic.
I'd rather throw in some black squadron pilots to fill out the last couple points

Reb 3 is ugly also. Y's without ions are worthless. They really can't be counted on to do damage, and any decent imp pilot will just avoid them and focus on your Xs first leaving the Ys for easy pickings later.
 
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Trenden Flanigan
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iNano78 wrote:

P.S. I don't have enough Swarm Tactics to run #2, nor enough TIES to run #3.


Yeah, for both #3s and Imperial #2 I would have to borrow from friends...


So Imperial 1 vs. Rebel 1. Both played well to their respective tactics. Who wins?
 
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Jeff Dunford
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kmanweiss wrote:
Imp 3 with 1 unique means that the unique is going to be the primary target, which wastes those points unless you're shooting for a biggs-light tactic.
I'd rather throw in some black squadron pilots to fill out the last couple points


Those points aren't really "wasted", as there aren't many ways to spend 4 points in an 8-TIE swarm. You can either upgrade a couple ships to Obsidian or Black Squadron for slightly better pilot skill (but still lower than any named pilot, so probably won't matter) or you can put in one of four named pilots: Backstabber, Dark Curse, Night Beast or Winged Gundark. Of those four, I like either Dark Curse or Night Beast with 7 Academy friends, mainly because they're slightly more difficult to kill (e.g. you're protecting the extra points spent on them). Dark Curse is good against Rebels (prevents both Focus and Target Lock effects), while Night Beast can get both a Focus and an Evade each time he uses a green maneuver. Dark Curse probably gets the nod due to his higher pilot skill... although he probably won't be as effective against an Imperial squad.
 
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Charlie Theel
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If you're running Biggs without R2-F2 to screen Wedge, he won't last beyond the first pass probably.

I wouldn't field an Imperial build with less than 6 ships as you will lose at least 1 TIE on your first pass and then will be in trouble unless you deal a considerable amount of damage yourself on that first pass.

I like your Rebel 3 build but I'm not sure I would bring a Y-Wing. If you lose Wedge in the late game, you probably won't have the firepower to pull out a win with just Salm. It would depend how devastating Wedge was until that point.

 
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David Pontier
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littlebull76 wrote:

Imperial Option 1:

Darth Vader w/Swarm Tactics & Cluster Missles
"Howlrunner" w/Swarm Tactics
"Mauler Mithel"
"Backstabber"
Academy Pilot

Plan to pair Howlrunner/Mauler Mithel and Vader/Academy Pilot in attack groups for swarm benefits. Start Backstabber alone off to the side and use 4s and 5s to get behind fast.


I like the idea of starting Backstabber off to the side. It’s something I’ve thought of trying as well. However, I wouldn’t “pair” the other 4 ships, I would put them all together in one formation. Howlrunner’s ability is so powerful in an Imperial swarm, that it is almost broken. You want to spread that ability to as many ships as possible, so I would consider a Triangle formation with the Academy at the front, Vader and Mauler on the two lower corners, and Howlrunner in the middle.

As for swarm tactics, the goal is to be able to fire before the enemy. Think about the ships you will be facing. If the rebels have the initiative, Wedge will fire first no matter what you do. Luke doesn’t seem very popular in all the builds I’ve seen, and while Horton is popular, he is also expensive and usually only shows up in three ship builds. Either way, if the rebels have initiative, he will fire before Howlrunner. After that, the Rebels are all 6’s or below. This means I think you only need 1 swarm tactics and most of your ships will fire before the rebels anyway. I’d give the ST to Howlrunner and give Vader Squad leader. If you give one of Vader’s actions to Howlrunner, she will be able to focus and evade on the same turn, and this will keep her alive much longer.

littlebull76 wrote:

Imperial Option 2:

"Howlrunner" w/Swarm Tactics
"Mauler Mithel" w/Swarm Tactics
Black Squadron Pilot w/Swarm Tactics
Black Squadron Pilot w/Swarm Tactics
Black Squadron Pilot w/Swarm Tactics (Or "Backstabber")
Obsidian Squadron Pilot

Everyone is just a Swarm tactic horde up the middle, all attacking early and together after chaining Swarm Tactics. (Yes, this one would suck after killing off Howlrunner and Mauler Mithel, but fielding 6 ships? I don't know... I just wanted to throw this one out there and see.)


The object of this build is obvious. I think you might be able to conserve some points here and add another named TIE. You are spending 2 points on Mauler to raise his pilot skill by 1. I don’t know if that is worth it. Also, the last TIE in the Swarm Chain might as well be an Academy TIE, since you are just going to raise his skill to Howlrunner’s 8 anyway.

littlebull76 wrote:

Imperial Option 3:

Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
"Backstabber"

Just sheer numbers. Easy targets, but there are lots of them. Can't possibly hit all at once.


I like this one, but Backstabber becomes the obvious target and he won’t last long and probably will never get a chance to use his ability. For that reason you might consider Night Beast or Dark Curse to use up the extra points. They both have great defensive abilities, and if your opponent is tricked into aiming at them first, they will waste a lot of attacks while the other TIEs pick them apart.

littlebull76 wrote:

Rebel Option 1:

Wedge Antilles w/Swarm Tactics
Biggs Darklighter
Rookie Pilot
Gold Squadron w/ion cannon

Use Biggs to keep Wedge alive and Swarm tactics to kill TIEs before they attack. Fly together for most of the game, using ion cannon for the rear.


I like this option a lot and have used it myself.


littlebull76 wrote:

Rebel Option 2:

Wedge Antilles w/Swarm Tactics, Proton Torpedoes & R5-D8
"Dutch" Vander w/ion cannon, proton torpedoes & R5-K6
Biggs Darklighter w/R2-F2

Plan to keep in constant formation (Biggs in the back) the whole time and use ion cannon to stop random TIEs from out maneuvering to the back. Attack synergy between Dutch and Wedge.


I’m not a huge fan of three ship rebel builds, but this one has the ability to work well together. However, once Biggs is dead, the rest of your ships will go quickly. Because of this I might swap Dutch with Horton. Horton is deadly at range 2 with both torpedoes and the Ion cannon. Give him both sets of torpedoes. Yes, you lose the TL/Focus combo with wedge, but the added damage Horton does should make up for it. You just need to do enough damage so that when Biggs is gone, you’ve killed their two best TIEs.


littlebull76 wrote:

Rebel Option 3:

Rookie Pilot
Rookie Pilot
Rookie Pilot
Gold Squadron Pilot
Gold Squadron Pilot w/R2 astromech

Just sheer number of rebel ships. Pretend I'm imperial, but with ships that have more HP.


I agree with everyone else that I am not a big fan of this. However, in tournament play, you will often be fighting Rebel against Rebel, and this has some potential in that regard. But I doubt think this has a chance against a Imp swarm.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Piqsid wrote:
...Howlrunner’s ability is so powerful in an Imperial swarm, that it is almost broken. You want to spread that ability to as many ships as possible...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you limited to using Howlrunner's ability to one other ("another") ship within range 1 per combat phase?

If you can use Howlrunner's ability with each other ship within range 1, then I've been doing it wrong and Howlrunner is even more powerful than the Emperor has foreseen I thought.
 
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Neil Kimball
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I've been leaning towards running that exact Rebel #1 build myself and like it so far.
I've been toying with the idea of swapping out the Y-wing for another Rookie X-Wing and either 2 generic droids on Wedge and Biggs or 1 generic droid and take 99 for initiative. Thoughts?
 
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David Pontier
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iNano78 wrote:
Piqsid wrote:
...Howlrunner’s ability is so powerful in an Imperial swarm, that it is almost broken. You want to spread that ability to as many ships as possible...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you limited to using Howlrunner's ability to one other ("another") ship within range 1 per combat phase?

If you can use Howlrunner's ability with each other ship within range 1, then I've been doing it wrong and Howlrunner is even more powerful than the Emperor has foreseen I thought.


Yes, I interpret it to read when any other ship is at range 1 from Howlrunner it may reroll one attack dice.

See the video below of the world championships where the Imp player uses Howlrunner's ability to have several of is TIEs reroll their attacks.
http://www.justin.tv/fantasyflightgames/b/339219178

This game was supervised by FFG officials, so if they were doing it wrong, I think someone would have spoken up.

Also cards like Swarm Tactics and Squad leader say "Choose 1 ship . . ." to receive this bonus. Howlrunner doesn't say this.
 
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Robert M.
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iNano78 wrote:
Piqsid wrote:
...Howlrunner’s ability is so powerful in an Imperial swarm, that it is almost broken. You want to spread that ability to as many ships as possible...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you limited to using Howlrunner's ability to one other ("another") ship within range 1 per combat phase?

If you can use Howlrunner's ability with each other ship within range 1, then I've been doing it wrong and Howlrunner is even more powerful than the Emperor has foreseen I thought.

You've been doing it wrong. Happy hunting. ninja

@OP: I've been beaten twice this week by your Rebel list #1, and it has the best record of any Rebel list in my local metagame. You do need to fly Biggs very carefully, however, and/or break up your opponent's formation so he can't effectively focus fire.

I'm less convinced by your Imperial lists. I'm attracted to #1, but I'm convinced that (at least until Wave 2 comes out) a 5-ship Empire list just doesn't have enough bodies to beat a well-played Rebel squad.

I think I like #2 best, with the Backstabber variation: Mithel and Backstabber are both fragile, but if their respective pilot abilities comes into play they hit like Wedge for 60% of the cost.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Piqsid wrote:
Yes, I interpret it to read when any other ship is at range 1 from Howlrunner it may reroll one attack dice.

See the video below of the world championships where the Imp player uses Howlrunner's ability to have several of is TIEs reroll their attacks.
http://www.justin.tv/fantasyflightgames/b/339219178

This game was supervised by FFG officials, so if they were doing it wrong, I think someone would have spoken up.

Also cards like Swarm Tactics and Squad leader say "Choose 1 ship . . ." to receive this bonus. Howlrunner doesn't say this.


Um, wow, that's ridiculous.

OK, so why does anybody run anything other than (Howlrunner + 4x Black Squadron) w/ 5x Swarm Tactics and, say, Dark Curse? Keep them close with Howlrunner in the back and everybody up front rerolls a miss on every attack. That's a lot of attack power!
 
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Eric B.
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iNano78 wrote:


Um, wow, that's ridiculous.

OK, so why does anybody run anything other than (Howlrunner + 4x Black Squadron) w/ 5x Swarm Tactics and, say, Dark Curse? Keep them close with Howlrunner in the back and everybody up front rerolls a miss on every attack. That's a lot of attack power!


Probably because it's not a very good list. Sinking 10 points into Swarm Tactics probably isn't worth it because you're giving up another whole TIE, practically. And Black Squadron pilots will all shoot before any other generics commonly fielded (Academy, Obsidian, Rookie, Gold) anyways, so the benefit from Swarm Tactics ad naseum is a bit less than if you were always bumping up a cheaper Academy Pilot with it who would otherwise be shooting dead last.

Also, it's a one-trick-pony squad. Once you lose Howlrunner (and everyone will be focus targeting her just like they do Wedge), you're stuck with a bunch of Black Squadron Pilots and 8pts worth of now-useless Swarm Tactics.

Still, like just about any other 6+ TIE/ln Imperial List, it's got a real shot at beating any Rebel squad it runs into. It's just probably not as effective and efficient as other Imperial Lists at doing so.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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RogueThirteen wrote:
iNano78 wrote:


Um, wow, that's ridiculous.

OK, so why does anybody run anything other than (Howlrunner + 4x Black Squadron) w/ 5x Swarm Tactics and, say, Dark Curse? Keep them close with Howlrunner in the back and everybody up front rerolls a miss on every attack. That's a lot of attack power!


Probably because it's not a very good list. Sinking 10 points into Swarm Tactics probably isn't worth it because you're giving up another whole TIE, practically. And Black Squadron pilots will all shoot before any other generics commonly fielded (Academy, Obsidian, Rookie, Gold) anyways, so the benefit from Swarm Tactics ad naseum is a bit less than if you were always bumping up a cheaper Academy Pilot with it who would otherwise be shooting dead last.

Also, it's a one-trick-pony squad. Once you lose Howlrunner (and everyone will be focus targeting her just like they do Wedge), you're stuck with a bunch of Black Squadron Pilots and 8pts worth of now-useless Swarm Tactics.

Still, like just about any other 6+ TIE/ln Imperial List, it's got a real shot at beating any Rebel squad it runs into. It's just probably not as effective and efficient as other Imperial Lists at doing so.


... So you're better off with something like Howlrunner w/ Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel w/ Swarm Tactics, and 5x Academy Pilots for a 7-TIE swarm, having 2 ships at 8 Skill and 2 at 7 Skill each turn (until the two stars get shot down). Try to get a traffic jam with lead Academy Pilots, then fire early with the best positioned TIEs (which should all be within range 1 of Howlrunner).
 
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David Pontier
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iNano78 wrote:

... So you're better off with something like Howlrunner w/ Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel w/ Swarm Tactics, and 5x Academy Pilots for a 7-TIE swarm, having 2 ships at 8 Skill and 2 at 7 Skill each turn (until the two stars get shot down). Try to get a traffic jam with lead Academy Pilots, then fire early with the best positioned TIEs (which should all be within range 1 of Howlrunner).


Sounds good on paper. Now try to navigate 7 ties through an asteroid field while always keeping them Range 1 from Howlrunner. And then after you do that, your remaining TIEs all have to fire at Biggs at range 3 while Wedge and a Rookie X-wing blow up Howlrunner and a Y-wing Ionizes Mauler. Then you are left with 5 scrambling rookies against four formidable Rebels.

Having said that, it is still a really good strategy, it just takes a lot of execution to pull it off.
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Jeremy Steward
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Black Squadron pilots arent very good because there currently are no pilot skills available to them that really work well with them and make them worthit. You really are better off with obsidian pilots. That may change with wave 2 however.
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Eric B.
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Deadwolf wrote:
Black Squadron pilots arent very good because there currently are no pilot skills available to them that really work well with them and make them worthit. You really are better off with obsidian pilots. That may change with wave 2 however.


An Imperial squad where each TIE had "Draw Their Fire" might gain a lot of survivability by spreading all the critical hits out amongst undamaged ships. Having six wounded TIEs is a lot better than having three healthy TIEs.


Still, who wants to go out and buy six Falcons just for 6x Draw Their Fire (assuming it's not in any of the other Wave 2 expansions).
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I'm using the 8 TIE swarm, but for my 16 pointer I use a black squadron TIE + squad leader instead, with it you can easily save / give an offensive boost to any TIE that requires it, and having your leader TIE die early doesn't hurt the entire squad either



for rebels I use:

Garven
Dutch + ion C + R5K6
rookie Xwing
gold Ywing + ion C

always have Garven use focus, and if done correctly you should be able to have all 4 ships hitting 1 specific target, with target lock + focus for both Xwings. You should be getting about 6 actions in total, 7 if you are lucky with R5K6, which is comparable to a TIE swarm, except that you have a lot more firepower. If you plan ahead, that's maybe a total of 4-5 target locks + 5 focus tokens max in a single round. Even if you fail to drop a TIE every turn, that 1 TIE would have like only 1 hp left with an ion token on it for sure. Unlike Wedge builds, if either Garven or Dutch dies, nothing much happens to your squad, ie. it wouldn't really hurt it. If both of them die, that's a bigger problem, but by then you should've dealt the same amount of hurt to his squad as well, so yeah
 
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