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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: "Leader"mir vs. Dain discussion rss

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Matt Duckworth
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(Admin Note: This was meant to be a strategy discussion, but actually got rejected for submission for that subforum! I think that is funny since I have read and myself written some much sloppier workups that have been approved . Anyway, I'm more interested in the discussion than the 1.2 GG this might have drawn so here it is)



Subject: Leadermir vs. Dain?

Since HoN has come out, I have not seen a whole lot of love for Leadership Boromir. Everybody instantly would rather use his tactics counterpart or build a Dwarf deck around Dain instead. I am curious as to why this is?

I will state that I am currently running Leadermir, and despite early unsuccessful attempts in HoN, I can see a great deal of potential here. Sure, his ability only applies to allies, but he gives it while untapped! This is huge, and part of the reason I've never thought Dain was quite the God-king that everyone thinks he is. Sure, in the late game against most scenarios, Dain will prevail with many dwarf allies out, but I see a drastic difference in the first few turns before allies are lined up and the power curve is reached.

I have found in the new brutal HoN scenarios, you need all hands on deck for questing/combat power... not standing with arms crossed and an arrogant stare while conveying a bonus to fellow dwarves. Boromir only requires a resource token on him, which is pretty easy to accomplish with Gondor cards. Sure, his bonus only extends to attack power.. but in HoN this is WHAT MATTERS.

Leadermir is also at a temporal disadvantage, as there are a whole cycle of Gondor player cards coming our way while Dain's dwarves already have seen a lot of love from EVERY single item released up to HoN! His stats are solid (wish he was a little cheaper but that would require sacrificing def or HP which is non-negotiable in HoN scenarios), and his bonus is easy to use.. and I think more applicable in the early game.. especially in HoN. I don't think he belongs in the write-off category that everyone seems to be placing him in.

Thoughts?
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jakub praibis
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I am a bit torn on this one. First, I think Dain is super powerful. Or, I will put it this way, I think Dain should get errata, I will never use him until the does because I find the ability absurdly good in a way.

Now for Boromir. He was my favourite in the books so I delight in deckbuilding around him in the game. I like the design of both versions. I now prefer the Leadership one because of the art. Tactics Boromir is great fun to build around, boosting him is more rewarding than boosting any other hero, for me, because you can use him for so many things, not just the quest, defence, attack but also other exhausting abilities - like paying for Hail of Stones or Peace, and Thought. I have only once used the second ability but I find it nicely thematic - and it can be useful.

Leadership version is super great for battle. I think for this entire cycle Boromir Leadership will easilly rival Dain - despite being absurdly over-powered at the first sight. One should also consider that Gondorian allies come cheaper and more aplenty than Dwarves. And we have just begun the cycle (or not actually).

I think either version of Boromir can get only way more useful with the adventure packs. I see a ton of willpower built around the Outlands. I have proxied Ethir Swordsman, the three copies of him and other three of Hunter of Lamedon can get quite crazy. And of course, we can expect at least three or four more Outlands allies by the end of the cycle; and perhaps a hero too?
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Matt Duckworth
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I hope we can expect 6 more heroes! Don't they usually come in one a pack?

I think you have a valid point... part of judging these heroes is judging dwarves vs. Gondor. Right now, dwarves are far more developed than Gondor... but I like you am optimistic this is going to change pretty dramatically in the next few months. By the end of this cycle, people will be crying that Gondor is too strong like the dwarves now.

I also must admit that I am influenced by the art. This game easily should be up for every illustrated game award out there. Leadership Boromir is amazing.

Edit - I also won't play with Dain anymore, or dwarf decks.
 
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John Steinbach
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I think you yourself hit on the reason why Leadership Boromir hasn't quite caught on yet. The Gondor deck just needs more cards. I would be willing to bet money that he'll be immensely popular by the end of this AP cycle.

As an individual card, I don't think he's quite as good as Dain, although he possesses a few advantages that Dain does not (namely, being able to actually do things without sacrificing his global bonus). Ultimately, though, the comparison is a bit irrelevant; they both fulfill similar functions in different deck archetypes.

So, give it time. As the Gondor theme gets fleshed out, the new Boromir will grow exponentially better.
 
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jakub praibis
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mjd83 wrote:
I hope we can expect 6 more heroes! Don't they usually come in one a pack?

I think you have a valid point... part of judging these heroes is judging dwarves vs. Gondor. Right now, dwarves are far more developed than Gondor... but I like you am optimistic this is going to change pretty dramatically in the next few months. By the end of this cycle, people will be crying that Gondor is too strong like the dwarves now.

I also must admit that I am influenced by the art. This game easily should be up for every illustrated game award out there. Leadership Boromir is amazing.

Edit - I also won't play with Dain anymore, or dwarf decks.


Yeah, one hero per cycle. I meant we might see one Outlands hero perhaps, but I was really digressing there.

As for the Dwarf debate, I think it is interesting (or strange) that they build their strategy around numbers when in the story they were portrayed as not numerous (at the given period). But I would not go further into it. I expect every faction to have a different strategy built around it, like Noldor, for instance, will be more about strong individuals and their supporting cards than the strength in numbers. Dwarves, however, are able to do almost anything now, their only weaknesses seem to be rather poor defence - in general I mean - which might be a problem in the siege stages, and perhaps somewhat slow beginning. When I was playing them I felt more vulnerable at the start than when playing with the Noldor. It was only after a while in the most of the games that they became invincible.

ps: So far, I really like how Gondor is shaping up. The resource acceleration and manipulation seems to be their theme. I wish Steward was only playable on a Gondor hero.
 
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Oleg volobujev
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Dwarfs and Dain most of the time useless agaisnt HON. My super dwarf deck which one can win most of the scenarios (even Battle in the Lake-town) solo, lost every time in HON. Very bad....
 
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Matt Duckworth
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Glaurung2 wrote:
Dwarfs and Dain most of the time useless agaisnt HON. My super dwarf deck which one can win most of the scenarios (even Battle in the Lake-town) solo, lost every time in HON. Very bad....



That is interesting indeed. I've only played Lake Town a couple times now but it is pretty intensly difficult (and fun!). I didn't think HoN was that hard, just so very different. For Ithilien, I have not yet reached the point where I am specifically building a deck to defeat it alone. I may get there if none of my other ideas works.
 
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Pauli Vinni
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Well HoN is different so it needs a different kind of deck... And I think that it is much easier than Lake town...
 
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