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Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles» Forums » General

Subject: Having practical problems with concealment counters... rss

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Brandon Fraley
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I'm finding it damn near impossible to move the counters without revealing whats underneath them. The information on the counters being so close to the edges, combined with the way color values graduate across the counter, means that if the table or map even gets bumped, it becomes pretty obvious if the counter is a decoy or not. When i try to pick up counters to move them, i find it impossible to lift both counters solidly together with no space between, revealing that it's not a decoy, and same if I try to "scoot" counters, inevitably the corners will rotate even ever so slightly, but still just enough to reveal whats really underneath.

Considering that decoys seem to be such a significant part of the game, this strikes me as a big issue. How are others handling it? My counters didn't seems to be mis-cut or anything. The only solution I can think of is to ask my opponent to turn around, which is impractical enough to prevent me from playing the game.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

-B
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Josh
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My first response avoids the issue entirely--play on VASSAL even if you are in the same room with your opponent. Decoys/conceal counters are indistinguishable. Also, boards never get bumped causing cross-board LOS changes.

But I dont think that is what you are really looking for in a suggestion.

When I've played with the physical board game, I have not had a prob with the decoy marker's misalignment revealing what is underneath. I do corner-clip, dont know if that helped or not.

I dont know if you'd find this practical, but you could number your conceal markers and then keep a hidden sheet of which number lines up to which unit/decoy.

Sorry I wasnt more helpful!
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Samuel Hinz
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For ghost panzer Jim was looking as decoys having number around the edges like normal units and having the word decoy in the middle. Making those little bulbs a lot less revealing.

Unsure whether this plan has been put in place though. Maybe Jim or a playtester could comment.
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A Day
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Counter sleds! You can make your own or buy them.

http://casualwargamersclub.blogspot.com/2010/05/counter-sled...

http://rdoxx.com/

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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Samuel, yes, dedicated decoys are the plan for Ghost Panzer. I have counters allotted for it. That will make little slips and mishandlings far less revealing.
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Brandon Fraley
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Josh, I've been using Vassal (for the first time!) to play against myself and become more familiar with the rules. You're right, not the answer I was looking for, but a solution none the less, and a means to hopefully play more often!

Mr. Chairman, these counter sleds are a very interesting notion. I might possibly have to try that out or something similar.

Samuel, that sounds like potentially the best solution (or at least the most obvious) and if it works as well as it sounds, then I'm glad Jim was able to come to that decision and get it though.

In the mean time, I will try the numbering solution (perhaps using some of those blank white counters) and see how that goes.

Thanks!

-B

P.S. Jim, just wanted to note that I'm still pretty green in the hobby (less than 2 years) but several of the aspects you wanted to simulate differently than other games address specific complaints I've been having, even in that short time. They seemed obvious to me, but as someone who's new to the hobby and certainly never seen combat, I'd bring the concepts up to friends but then leave it at, "but what do I know?"

Thanks for putting these ideas into a game and congrats for being the one to do it. To be honest, I've only read the rules and played half of the first scenario with a friend, but it looks to be exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks again!
 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
P.S. Jim, just wanted to note that I'm still pretty green in the hobby (less than 2 years) but several of the aspects you wanted to simulate differently than other games address specific complaints I've been having, even in that short time. They seemed obvious to me, but as someone who's new to the hobby and certainly never seen combat, I'd bring the concepts up to friends but then leave it at, "but what do I know?"


Thanks, Brandon. For me the journey was a little different. Since I had played tactical wargames since I was 12, I was kind of indoctrinated in the wrong way of thinking. I had always read history, but I guess I never paid enough attention. Perhaps a kinder way of saying it would be that I wasn't looking for it. I was reading for enjoyment and not thinking about the nuts and bolts of a game.

Around 8 years ago, I had a jarring moment where something caused me to question my perception of a particular tactical game's simulation value. This caused me to start reading a lot more while specifically thinking of simulation. This led to MANY more jarring moments and the birth of Band of Brothers.
 
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Brandon Fraley
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The moment I "lost my faith" as it were, was when playing ASL, one of my squads took fire, and I was forced to take a straight morale check. I failed and flipped the counter. The next turn, the same squad took fire again, generating another straight check, which I failed and reached for the DM marker. My opponent explained that the squad was casualty reduced. I challenged him and he was right. It's a game, and a good one at that, but the logic behind that rule never sat well with me.

I figured that reason to keep firing at the unit every turn was to keep putting that DM marker on them, preventing them from rallying and acting. I kept wondering why if the first attack was was effective in suppressing my squad but not reducing it, why would the second attack, achieving the exact same result on the CRT, inflict casualties. The game itself is saying that the fire was of the exact same effectiveness, yet it wasn't. If anything, I figured it should be even harder to inflict casualties than it was initially, considering that at first the enemy had targets firing back at them from windows, but now that I'm suppressed, all the windows are empty as my squad hunkers down scrounging for anything to hide behind. Especially since the KIA result was available on the CRT, it was unlikely, though possible, to roll it. Ugh, I'm ranting now, and an after midnight rant at that. Point is, I appreciate your approach

As for the concealment counters, my solution was number the white extra counters that came in the box, and place those out on the board, and then place a white counter with the matching number face down on the counter or stack off board. This solution worked exceptionally well, I thought. Very clean and simple, easy to keep track of, and easy to consult while playing. Even if the table gets bumped and the off board counters slide a bit revealing whats underneath, it doesnt matter as the white numbered counter in placed face down. I'm able to easily pick them up and reference them as well without giving anything away or having to be really careful or sneaky as I do it.

-B
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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I had that moment also. I've had many of those moments.

My first moment like that involved stacking. There I am, setting up strong points, cramming 2 or 3 squads, a leader, and support weapons in a hex and leaving a couple of hundred yards empty between stacks. I step back, look at the maps and realize that this is exactly the type of deployment that a WW2 company would have avoided - that it was the exact opposite of how they would have deployed.
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Gordon Stewart
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Josh, definitely agree that the reveals are a problem!

We simply number the decoys then fold up a piece of cardboard
(as a screen) with the real counters sitting below a number
(1,2,3,4....) written on the cardboard; IYKWIM
 
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