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Subject: Announcing Dominion Set Generator rss

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Wei-Hwa Huang
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http://dominionsetgenerator.com/

I got a bit frustrated that a purely uniformly-random set generator sometimes makes sets that aren't fun. This is a set generator that, by default, generates "fun and balanced" sets. And if you don't like that you can customize it in lots of different ways.

I highly welcome feedback or any offers to help (especially if you want to help make it look snazzy and cool!).
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Cyrus the Great
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That looks great! I have one question and one suggestion. What does it mean when by the checkboxes there are "DarkAges1" and "DarkAges2" (and likewise for the other big expansions?
Also, would be nice to have a short glossary explaining terms like "antisplitter" and "discardcasher." A lot of them are intuitive, but some not so much, or they could be defined a few different ways.
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Renaissance Man wrote:
That looks great! I have one question and one suggestion. What does it mean when by the checkboxes there are "DarkAges1" and "DarkAges2" (and likewise for the other big expansions?
Also, would be nice to have a short glossary explaining terms like "antisplitter" and "discardcasher." A lot of them are intuitive, but some not so much, or they could be defined a few different ways.


You can mouseover to get a small glossary.

DarkAges1, etc. refer to Goko's partitioning of the large expansions.

 
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Ben Bateson
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This looks really cool.

Can we please have a 'card force OUT of set' as well as a 'card force IN'?
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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ousgg wrote:
This looks really cool.

Can we please have a 'card force OUT of set' as well as a 'card force IN'?


It's on the "planned future features" at the bottom of the page.
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onigame wrote:
Renaissance Man wrote:
That looks great! I have one question and one suggestion. What does it mean when by the checkboxes there are "DarkAges1" and "DarkAges2" (and likewise for the other big expansions?
Also, would be nice to have a short glossary explaining terms like "antisplitter" and "discardcasher." A lot of them are intuitive, but some not so much, or they could be defined a few different ways.


You can mouseover to get a small glossary.

DarkAges1, etc. refer to Goko's partitioning of the large expansions.



Curious, why would you link your work to theirs ?
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Jeremy Lennert
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Doesn't work in IE8 (specifically: the "generate" buttons do nothing; clicking the "custom" radio button causes the whole screen to go dark and disables all controls; pressing any other radio button causes the window to scroll up to the top of the settings list, making it very hard to edit.) Works better for me under Firefox.


The "set owned" button for "base" is disabled (and checked)--I don't see any reason it should be; someone could play with Intrigue or a Base Cards set without owning the original game.


Avoid/Fewer/More/Always seems like a somewhat inconsistent naming scheme; "Always" is the name of a frequency, but "Fewer" and "More" are names of amounts, while "Avoid" names a preference (and could be interpreted either as "less" or "none at all"). You might want to reconsider calling them something like "Never/Rarely/Often/Always" or "None/Fewer/More/All".

Also, this is somewhat ambiguous because there's two possible ways to look at the frequency of card categories: the percentage of kingdom cards that fall into that category, and the percentage of games that include at least one card from that category. Someone who sets "Trashers" to "Always" is probably not intending to ask for a set that contains nothing but Trashers. On the other hand, for broad, common categories like "Antiterminus", the average number per set is probably well above 1 even at default settings, so you could theoretically guarantee one per set without making them any more common overall; depending on implementation details, I could imagine that setting that category to "more" might actually produce more of them than setting it to "always".

That may even be what you want--I could imagine someone wanting to guarantee that there's at least one splitter without making splitters more common overall. But if that's what you intended for the control to mean, then "always" should probably be an independent checkbox, not a radio button that excludes the other options.

onigame wrote:
You can mouseover to get a small glossary.

This doesn't seem to work for a few terms, e.g. Cumulative, Deckmiller.

The tip for Antiterminus is cut off at an apostrophe (probably needs to be escaped).

Not clear on the difference between a Scouter and a Topdeck.

Hierarchy seems weird at several places. For example, your definition of Antiterminus explicitly claims that it includes Chainers, but Chainers are listed as a sibling item of Antiterminus rather than being a child.
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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I can easily imagine it not working well in IE because I didn't test it there. I think having a UI guru help me is probably the biggest thing I need help with right now.

Thanks for the bug reports, I'll get to them eventually.

Quote:
Someone who sets "Trashers" to "Always" is probably not intending to ask for a set that contains nothing but Trashers.


This is what the "Custom" button is for. If, for example, you want to have exactly one Trasher in your deck, click on "Custom", and in the pop-up box, choose "Range", set "Min" and "Max" to 1, and set
"Importance" to something really high. Experiment with other settings
to see what their effects are. :-)

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I likecool
 
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Can you get the folks at isotropic.org to incorporate this tool -- that would be really cool!
 
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snoozefest wrote:
Can you get the folks at isotropic.org to incorporate this tool -- that would be really cool!


Isotropic is shutting down, Dougz isn't making any more updates... it's being incorporated into Goko, though.
 
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I Eat Tables wrote:
snoozefest wrote:
Can you get the folks at isotropic.org to incorporate this tool -- that would be really cool!


Isotropic is shutting down, Dougz isn't making any more updates... it's being incorporated into Goko, though.

Boo! Well, maybe I'll try it there on occasion...
 
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Hans Broersen
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I like it a lot.

Cornucopia and Hinterlands are important to add, but the first feature to add after that, in my opinion, is the option to save the setting at the point you have entered all the options that apply to your own situation (expansions, etc). There are so many options you don't want to set them every time you use it. You may revisit when required, though.

A new feature I would like to see is the ability to add your own (Kingdom) cards. I am sure many players have added one or more sets from Fan expansions (I have 8 that I really like and I may add another 2 or 3 in the near future) and no randomizer allows the addition of them. Since this seems to be a text-based application, there should not be too much of a difficulty to add this functionality. Unlike Hiwillers (great) randomizer.

 
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I have been looking for something like this. I punched up a dozen sets of Base + Intrigue. This generator likes Shanty Town quite a lot. It came up in 6 of 12 sets.
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Dredry Toenail wrote:
I have been looking for something like this. I punched up a dozen sets of Base + Intrigue. This generator likes Shanty Town quite a lot. It came up in 6 of 12 sets.


I just tried it and Shanty Town was in 3 of 12 sets, so you may be seeing a bit of observer bias. It is true that Shanty Town is more likely than many others, because it's cheap and gives extra Actions, but it shouldn't be in 50% of the sets. Generally it should be just as likely as Village.
 
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Dave Daley
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Is there any chance of un-goko-ing it? I find it a bit (lot?) counter-intuitive to break the sets up this way, as I just don't use goko, and obviously, the sets aren't broken up that way in the boardgame version.

Or maybe this thread should be moved to the VGG site?
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David desJardins
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elkabong wrote:
Is there any chance of un-goko-ing it? I find it a bit (lot?) counter-intuitive to break the sets up this way, as I just don't use goko, and obviously, the sets aren't broken up that way in the boardgame version.


Is there a change recently? The website doesn't seem to break them up unless you want to. So it seems that it's already been ungokoized. You can specify options for each set as a whole with a single click.
 
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Matt E
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onigame wrote:
Dredry Toenail wrote:
I have been looking for something like this. I punched up a dozen sets of Base + Intrigue. This generator likes Shanty Town quite a lot. It came up in 6 of 12 sets.


I just tried it and Shanty Town was in 3 of 12 sets, so you may be seeing a bit of observer bias. It is true that Shanty Town is more likely than many others, because it's cheap and gives extra Actions, but it shouldn't be in 50% of the sets. Generally it should be just as likely as Village.


For me, one of the things a randomizer app absolutely must do is include each card with approximately equal likelihood. If a randomizer is biasing its selection toward a particular kind of card, like villages, I'm not interested.
 
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David desJardins
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LastFootnote wrote:
For me, one of the things a randomizer app absolutely must do is include each card with approximately equal likelihood.


Why?
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ughhh.... is there an app for this?

LOL, can't wait for you to roll one out. Kudos
 
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LastFootnote wrote:
onigame wrote:
Dredry Toenail wrote:
I have been looking for something like this. I punched up a dozen sets of Base + Intrigue. This generator likes Shanty Town quite a lot. It came up in 6 of 12 sets.


I just tried it and Shanty Town was in 3 of 12 sets, so you may be seeing a bit of observer bias. It is true that Shanty Town is more likely than many others, because it's cheap and gives extra Actions, but it shouldn't be in 50% of the sets. Generally it should be just as likely as Village.


For me, one of the things a randomizer app absolutely must do is include each card with approximately equal likelihood. If a randomizer is biasing its selection toward a particular kind of card, like villages, I'm not interested.


I don't have a problem so much with the weighted options, but I would like the weighting explained a little more, so you could undo certain aspects via the options. I couldn't get a lot of the mouse-over events to work, so that made it even harder to figure out what was going on.
 
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Matt E
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DaviddesJ wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
For me, one of the things a randomizer app absolutely must do is include each card with approximately equal likelihood.


Why?


Because if a card, or a specific set of cards is much more likely to appear, I get sick of them and the games start to feel more and more similar. Also because it pushes out other cards that are narrow as it is.
 
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David desJardins
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LastFootnote wrote:
Because if a card, or a specific set of cards is much more likely to appear, I get sick of them and the games start to feel more and more similar. Also because it pushes out other cards that are narrow as it is.


That makes sense but it's not clear that having every card occur equally often helps rather than hurts. Imagine that within your set of cards there are several cards that are very similar to each other, they play almost the same role in every game where they appear. Then by having every card occur equally often, you will have the effects of that group of cards occur much more often. That may or may not be what you want. It might be that the reason there are lots of cards with similar effects is that the designer wanted those effects to occur more often. But it could also be that you end up with a lot of similar cards for other reasons and therefore that you are magnifying certain effects to occur more often than you would like, just because they appear on lots of cards.
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LastFootnote wrote:
For me, one of the things a randomizer app absolutely must do is include each card with approximately equal likelihood. If a randomizer is biasing its selection toward a particular kind of card, like villages, I'm not interested.


Do you mean that the app *must* include each card with equal likelihood, or that the app must *provide the option* of including each card with equal likelihood?

I do plan to offer the second as a feature at some point, so that those who want "pure random" can get it while still using the other features of the app. I have no intention of providing the first, which would be forcing all users of the app to do the same thing.
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Matt E
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onigame wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
For me, one of the things a randomizer app absolutely must do is include each card with approximately equal likelihood. If a randomizer is biasing its selection toward a particular kind of card, like villages, I'm not interested.


Do you mean that the app *must* include each card with equal likelihood, or that the app must *provide the option* of including each card with equal likelihood?

I do plan to offer the second as a feature at some point, so that those who want "pure random" can get it while still using the other features of the app. I have no intention of providing the first, which would be forcing all users of the app to do the same thing.


My argument is that the first should be the default, but not the only choice. Also, note that the first is not synonymous with 'pure random'. You can clump the cards together in certain ways while still having each card appear with equal likelihood.
 
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