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Subject: Three random rules from last night's game rss

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Brad
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Hi all, I hope this isn't too long of a post, but I had some things come up that even after 8 plays, I wasn't sure how to deal with. Your help with these three would be greatly appreciated!

1. Legendary Discovery - We were already at 8 distance and then I drew this card as a human. My interpretation was that as per the rules you have to "jump", but with the card we didn't "jump", so it wasn't valid to win the game with it. Plus the card doesn't say anything about "if you are at 8+ already". And, it just says play next to the Kobol objective, which in my mind does not complete the objective, which is to jump. It seems like you are only jumping one extra planet (thus only useful at 7-), not getting to Kobol.

2. Strategic Planning - Can someone use a strategic planning for basestar attacks? We had an unrevealed cylon using it (in the brig of course). I allowed it as I didn't see anything to prevent it.

3. Cylon Raiders, order of actions - Here is how the board of ships looked (I will simplify it to make it easier to understand).

Bottom left - 1 civ ship.
Left - 4 raiders, 1 civ ship, 1 viper.
Top left - 1 raiders.
Top right - nothing.
Right - 1 civ ship
Bottom right - nothing

What happens during their attack? I see perhaps three options

1. They all take their action "all at once". The raider in the top left moves towards the civ ship in the left area. Then since there is something human in the same space as the other 4 raiders, all are in "attack mode". The cylon raider 1 of 4 attacks the civ ship and raider 2 of 4 attacks the viper. Say the viper is damaged, now for the remaining two (3 of 4 and 4 of 4), they just stay there as they have already taken their action "go into attack mode".

2. You do all actions of the raiders, starting with those that can first do the first of four options. Thus, the first thing is "attack civ ships". Since raider 1 of 4 can, he destroys the civ ship. No others can attack civ ships, so now for "attack vipers", raider 2 of 4 attacks the viper. Say it damages it. Now, there are no more vipers available to attack. Next is "move vipers". So, the remaining two raiders (3 of 4 and 4 of 4) move towards the civ ship in the bottom left. The raider in the top left is equidistant from the two civ ships so now moves it moves clockwise.

3. You get to decide which raider to play first, and then do its action according to the order of available actions. So, let's say I wanted the raider in the top left to go counterclockwise. I would chose this raider to act first and move him into that space (nearest civ ship). Or, lets say I wanted him to move clockwise. I would first choose raider 1 of 4 to act first to destroy the civ ship. Then I would chose the raider to move clockwise (equidistant from civ ships).

Thanks all!
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Mindy G
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1. Correct. LD does nothing at distance 8, except make distance 9.

2. Correct, unrevealed cylons can plan Basestar attacks.

3. Current player gets to decide the order that the sectors activate.
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H-B-G
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On question 3, as Mindy said you deal with each sector separately in order chosen by the current player.

But note that all Vipers in a sector must be destroyed or damaged before civilian ships are attacked so in your case with the 4 raiders, the first would attack the Viper and if not destroyed the second would then attack the Viper this going on until the Viper is removed at which time the civilian would be destroyed if there were still Raiders yet to act.

No raider may move until both the Viper and Civilian ship have been removed.
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thebard8 wrote:
Hi all, I hope this isn't too long of a post, but I had some things come up that even after 8 plays, I wasn't sure how to deal with. Your help with these three would be greatly appreciated!

1. Legendary Discovery - We were already at 8 distance and then I drew this card as a human. My interpretation was that as per the rules you have to "jump", but with the card we didn't "jump", so it wasn't valid to win the game with it. Plus the card doesn't say anything about "if you are at 8+ already". And, it just says play next to the Kobol objective, which in my mind does not complete the objective, which is to jump. It seems like you are only jumping one extra planet (thus only useful at 7-), not getting to Kobol.

2. Strategic Planning - Can someone use a strategic planning for basestar attacks? We had an unrevealed cylon using it (in the brig of course). I allowed it as I didn't see anything to prevent it.

3. Cylon Raiders, order of actions - Here is how the board of ships looked (I will simplify it to make it easier to understand).

Bottom left - 1 civ ship.
Left - 4 raiders, 1 civ ship, 1 viper.
Top left - 1 raiders.
Top right - nothing.
Right - 1 civ ship
Bottom right - nothing

What happens during their attack? I see perhaps three options

1. They all take their action "all at once". The raider in the top left moves towards the civ ship in the left area. Then since there is something human in the same space as the other 4 raiders, all are in "attack mode". The cylon raider 1 of 4 attacks the civ ship and raider 2 of 4 attacks the viper. Say the viper is damaged, now for the remaining two (3 of 4 and 4 of 4), they just stay there as they have already taken their action "go into attack mode".

2. You do all actions of the raiders, starting with those that can first do the first of four options. Thus, the first thing is "attack civ ships". Since raider 1 of 4 can, he destroys the civ ship. No others can attack civ ships, so now for "attack vipers", raider 2 of 4 attacks the viper. Say it damages it. Now, there are no more vipers available to attack. Next is "move vipers". So, the remaining two raiders (3 of 4 and 4 of 4) move towards the civ ship in the bottom left. The raider in the top left is equidistant from the two civ ships so now moves it moves clockwise.

3. You get to decide which raider to play first, and then do its action according to the order of available actions. So, let's say I wanted the raider in the top left to go counterclockwise. I would chose this raider to act first and move him into that space (nearest civ ship). Or, lets say I wanted him to move clockwise. I would first choose raider 1 of 4 to act first to destroy the civ ship. Then I would chose the raider to move clockwise (equidistant from civ ships).

Thanks all!
1- correct. You're now at 9 distance, but still need to jump

Worth noting is that in one exp, the "trigger" is worded differently as "when you reach 7 distance", so that happens if you pass LD while at 6 distance.

2- You can play SP if it helps the cylons. As you know, that does 'soft reveal' you.

3- So going by the visual below....
Correct. Note that if you do that latter, your plan may not have made a difference anyways if all 4 raiders miss, causing the raider in sector 2 to move to sector 1 anyways

Just for fun....
d8 + d8 + d8 + d8 = (6) + (6) + (6) + (2) = 20
with up to 4 Evasive Manuevers d8 + d8 + d8 + d8 = (3) + (4) + (5) + (5) = 17
It'd work with 2 Evasive Manuevers



The script/turn by turn...
1) Are there vipers in the same sector? If yes, shoot at them (3-7 = damage; 8 = destroyed)
2) Are there civvies in the same sector? If yes, a raider destroys 1 civvy (no need to roll, they automatically die)
3) If no to #1 and #2, are there civvies elsewhere? If yes, move raiders closer to them via the shortest path. If tied, go clockwise.
4) If there no civvies, and no to #1 and #2, then each raider shoots at Galactica (8)


EDIT: added "script" in blue
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  • 225418. ackmondual
  • d8 + d8 + d8 + d8 =
  • (6) + (6) + (6) + (2) =
  • 20
  • Sun Dec 9, 2012 1:15 am
  • [+]
  • 225419. ackmondual
  • d8 + d8 + d8 + d8 =
  • (3) + (4) + (5) + (5) =
  • 17
  • with up to 4 Evasive Manuevers
  • Sun Dec 9, 2012 1:15 am
Brad
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Thanks all, that helps! And I reread the rules, and sure enough it talks about #3 . (And DaveD you were right, had those two mixed up!)

I'm wondering though, in the spirit of the game, why the current player gets to chose the sector order? Obviously if there are no revealed Cylons then this is probably mechanically the only option. But it seems to me though that if there was at least one revealed Cylon, they should get to chose the order. If both are revealed then they should be able to decide together.

Perhaps is the reason for this rule to give unrevealed cylons another opportunity to subtly negatively affect the fleet?

Even if this is the case, I guess it doesn't make sense that humans in any respect should be able to decide what cylons do. (perhaps someone could make a minor case for unrevealed cylons being able to transmit commands or something, but mechanically it would be impossible to play out an "unrevealed cylon" doing this since mechanically you can't be 100% "sure" of their identity as such unless the reveal)
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Gerry Smit
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In every instance where there is a choice for what happens first, or what to choose amongst (ignoring those crisis cards that say "Addmiral/President or Current Player chooses") , it is Current Player's choice.

Say two people place an Investigative Committee down for a skill check. Current Player chooses which one to accept (can't reject both, but chooses who's gets played). Which sector to activate first? CP chooses.

Pegasus is in the game, and there's an attack that hits? Current Player chooses to draw from Galactica damage or Pegasus damage.

I think it's more just a game rule than anything thematic.

ps. Welcome to bgg!
 
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thebard8 wrote:
Thanks all, that helps! And I reread the rules, and sure enough it talks about #3 . (And DaveD you were right, had those two mixed up!)

I'm wondering though, in the spirit of the game, why the current player gets to chose the sector order? Obviously if there are no revealed Cylons then this is probably mechanically the only option. But it seems to me though that if there was at least one revealed Cylon, they should get to chose the order. If both are revealed then they should be able to decide together.

Perhaps is the reason for this rule to give unrevealed cylons another opportunity to subtly negatively affect the fleet?

Even if this is the case, I guess it doesn't make sense that humans in any respect should be able to decide what cylons do. (perhaps someone could make a minor case for unrevealed cylons being able to transmit commands or something, but mechanically it would be impossible to play out an "unrevealed cylon" doing this since mechanically you can't be 100% "sure" of their identity as such unless the reveal)


GerryRailBaron pretty much covered it, but I will add that this gives incentive for a player to NOT be in the Brig (players in the Brig skip drawing and resolving crisis card), as the crisis cards are where the choices are for cylon ship activations, crisis card choices themselves (e.g. sending someone to Sickbay/Brig), and skill check interrupts
 
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Robert Stewart
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Yeah, particularly once all the Cylons are exposed, the only justification for letting the current player act as tie-breaker for Cylon actions is mechanical consistency. Once you accept that it's worth picking a single tie-breaker mechanic and sticking with it, there are only so many options - you can attempt to cover every possible situation with a specific rule, but that's a lot harder than you might think, and makes for rather thicker rulebooks. Letting the current player choose means that the power gets spread around, and that each player gets the chance to sabotage in more-or-less subtle ways.
 
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