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Subject: T&E vs Agricola rss

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Hi everyone!

A little background - As a thirty something, I've recently been rediscovering the art of board games through the mac app store. I started with familiar territory from my childhood. The simple stuff. Scotland Yard and so on. After the initial quench of nostalgia my interest dwindled fast. I was looking for something....more. I then discovered...Samurai! A superb game (as I think all here will testify)! I think the app really does the game justice. So much so that I bought the actual board game just days ago, and am excited to get a chance to play with family and friends.

Reiner Knizia was not a name I was familiar with until that moment, and after researching what other games he has created, Tigris and Euphrates caught my imagination.

So, it was back to the app store, and lo and behold, T&E had been immortalized there too. Naturally...I bought it: )

It's early days so far. It seems obvious that the game requires many replays to let the rules settle in before really getting to the meaty part...but I'm enjoying the journey very much thus far. Of course, like Samurai, I am tempted to buy the actual board game...

Before I do, I wanted to ask the community how Agricola compares, as I have the impression that it shares a similarity of sorts.

Which would you choose, and why?

Thanks for reading : )

 
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Lacombe
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There is absolutely no similarity between the two.

Mind you, they're both absolutely exceptional games.

Keep chugging away with Knizia for awhile until you develop a real appreciation for his design style.

A lot of more veteran geeks who jumped riight into the deep end with really complicated stuff like Agricola later have difficulty appreciating and enjoying a relatively simple, timeless design like Samurai or Tigris.

It would be a shame for you to fall into the same trap and lose the spark of interest that brought you to Knizia in the first place.

Geez, all this gushing. Ifeel like I should be offering a bunch of tiles on a shrine or something.

I'll stop carrying on then and leave you to it.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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These games have nothing in common. Unfortunately explaining that in greater detail would have me using a lot of jargon which you are as yet unfamiliar with, so here's a simplistic version. T&E is about set collection (namely, collecting sets of cubes), and accomplishes that through a rather confrontational method of tile laying. If I see something happening that is not to my liking, say an opponent getting way too much cubes in a certain colour, then I can attempt to attack him in various ways to do something about that. Agricola on the other hand requires the players to collect various resources, and transform these through various pathways in victory points. Here however the crucial bit is in denying others certain resources, and even certain actions; I cannot attack someone as I can in T&E. There is also a fair bit of timing to consider when to grab which action and what resource. The upshot is that both games require a different mindset to play, and play out in completely different ways. Asking which I would choose is like asking between a pear and a banana: 'It depends' is the only correct and generally valid answer. You'll have to discover for yourself what mode of play suits you and your fellow players best. But don't worry, with a database of over 60000 titles at the time of writing there's sure to be something in there which meets your approval meeple.
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I guess having two actions per turn is about as similar as they get then, haha, thanks for steering me straight on that: ) I intend very much to explore more Knizia games, and to savour them, of course. Are there any that you might recommend specifically for two people?

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Lacombe
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Lost Cities is a classic Knizia 2 player option.

You might try Through the Desert, too.
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Patrick Jamet
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I recommand Through the Desert.
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Eric Alexopoulos
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luckystreak wrote:
Hi everyone!

A little background - As a thirty something, I've recently been rediscovering the art of board games through the mac app store. I started with familiar territory from my childhood. The simple stuff. Scotland Yard and so on. After the initial quench of nostalgia my interest dwindled fast. I was looking for something....more. I then discovered...Samurai! A superb game (as I think all here will testify)! I think the app really does the game justice. So much so that I bought the actual board game just days ago, and am excited to get a chance to play with family and friends.

Reiner Knizia was not a name I was familiar with until that moment, and after researching what other games he has created, Tigris and Euphrates caught my imagination.

So, it was back to the app store, and lo and behold, T&E had been immortalized there too. Naturally...I bought it: )

It's early days so far. It seems obvious that the game requires many replays to let the rules settle in before really getting to the meaty part...but I'm enjoying the journey very much thus far. Of course, like Samurai, I am tempted to buy the actual board game...

Before I do, I wanted to ask the community how Agricola compares, as I have the impression that it shares a similarity of sorts.

Which would you choose, and why?

Thanks for reading : )



Have to agree, the two games are not similar in any shape or form. BTW, in Agricola, players start with 2 actions but can acquire more, so even in that respect the games are not similar. Both are great games. T&E is probably a little easier on noobies. I suggest you check out Amun-Re - another great game.
 
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Marshall P.
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Stargazer1x wrote:
I suggest you check outAmun-Re - another great game.


Agreed. I rate it a 10. But be aware, it's most definitely NOT for two players.

I veiw the difference between T&E and Agricola as one of geography. In T&E location and adjacency matter. Agricola has a spatial aspect also, but it's on the player boards. Where the players interact it is simply a menu of cards.
 
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Rob Rob
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T&E is really a straightforward abstract. Once you wrap your head around a couple of concepts the game gets much easier; internal vs. external struggles and the fact your side is the tokens' icon not the color.
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Martin G
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luckystreak wrote:
I intend very much to explore more Knizia games, and to savour them, of course. Are there any that you might recommend specifically for two people?

Battle Line and Carcassonne: The Castle are both great Knizia games that are just for 2 players. Ingenious is a good one too, if you don't mind totally abstract games.
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These are all stellar recommendations, thank you! Through the Desert looks interesting. Shall try and track a copy down...

Back to T&E for a second - Here it says T&E is best played with 4 players, however I was just watching a YouTube review with Knizia himself talking the game through, and he says it plays just as well with 2 players.

Thoughts anyone?

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Martin G
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luckystreak wrote:

Thoughts anyone?

Personally I like it best with 4, but you'll find plenty of others who swear by the 2-player experience.
 
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Josh Lacey
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I find T&E enjoyable with 2-4 players but I prefer 3-4.
 
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Stew Woods
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One of the many AWESOME things about T&E is that the 2p game is a rather different experience from the 3/4.
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Yee Keat Phuah
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nobody talks about the difference in theme yet.

I own two Knizia games, the big T&E and the small Loot. Both are great games, however, they lack theme. T&E could be just called Game of 4 Colors as someone mentioned, he did created a pure abstract ingenious which I find interesting though. When playing T&E, its always like, I am lacking red color, how do I get more red color, never once I think in terms of Temples.

Agricola is all about theme IMHO, I feel good when I build fences and stables to put my sheeps in, and I feel sad when I have to slaughter my sheeps for food, although they are only cubes, as I didn't get the animeeples.
 
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Stew Woods
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There's no doubt that Agricola is a more thematic game, but many people (including myself) find T&E a very thematic game.

The theme/mechanic connection is a very subjective one in games generally.
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lokides wrote:
There's no doubt that Agricola is a more thematic game, but many people (including myself) find T&E a very thematic game.

The theme/mechanic connection is a very subjective one in games generally.


I completely agree. The theme in T&E is very valuable in explaining the game. The whole "internal and external conflicts are confusing" completely goes away, when you describe the two situations: a new leader arises in the kingdom, the people look to their gods (or religious leaders) as to who to support. vs. these two kingdoms come together, everyone supports "their guy", all the farmers like their farmer leader, all the traders like their own trader leader, etc.

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fredact wrote:
The theme in T&E is very valuable in explaining the game.


Agreed. I don't go as far as you do (which is not intended to be a criticism in any way) but it strongly passes the "theme as aiding play" test. And of course the game was developed from the theme.

Quote:
internal and external conflicts


Revolts and wars, collectively conflicts as it will be.
 
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tim thorson
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Definately try ingenious and through the desert

Personally I didn't like kingdoms (scoring was slow), battleline just didn't appeal to me or lost cities (which initially we enjoyed but as we played more games found it a little dry)

Definately check out agricola. Great game
 
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Peter Mumford
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Tigris & Euphrates is a very good 2 player game if you reduce the size of the board. I do this by not placing the two treasures farthest from the meeting of the rivers. No other changes.
 
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lokides wrote:
There's no doubt that Agricola is a more thematic game, but many people (including myself) find T&E a very thematic game.

The theme/mechanic connection is a very subjective one in games generally.

To continue a 5 year old conversation: For example, I find T&E to be a reasonably thematic game - what I am actually doing each turn and how it affects the game state feels tied into the theme. I can see the empires expand and collapse. In contrast, Agricola's theme seems almost entirely pasted on - sure I'm dealing with little wooden animals, but the placement of discs on limited slots to get cubes, to get "food", tiles, cards, and points, feels entirely abstract. What theme there is comes from the text and pictures, not from play.

I like both games, but it does strike me as odd to see people assuming that Agricola is the more thematic of the two.
 
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