Daniel Loke
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Last night, I was playing a game in which the President's Office was activated 4 times via the use of a variant Skill Card (Give the Order: Activate a location you do not occupy).

A State of Emergency was played, and the President was the recipient of an Executive Order. He activated the office twice, then once more on his own action granted by the SoE. Then, a revealed Cylon activated Caprica, and the Crisis forced the transfer of the Presidency to another player, who then played Give the Order to activate the Office.

So I got to thinking. In a non-variant game, how many activations could possibly occur in a single turn?

Assuming A, B, C, and E are already camped out on the President's Office, for just this situation.

*A plays SoE and plays XO on President B. B gets 2 activations.
*B gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (3), playing Resignation and handing the Presidency to C.
*C gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (4).
*D activates Administration or Caprica and forces a transfer of the Presidency to E.
*E gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (5).

I think this is the maximum unless there are other ways to transfer the Presidency? Or is there another scenario which could be played out?
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schmloof wrote:
Last night, I was playing a game in which the President's Office was activated 4 times via the use of a variant Skill Card (Give the Order: Activate a location you do not occupy).

A State of Emergency was played, and the President was the recipient of an Executive Order. He activated the office twice, then once more on his own action granted by the SoE. Then, a revealed Cylon activated Caprica, and the Crisis forced the transfer of the Presidency to another player, who then played Give the Order to activate the Office.

So I got to thinking. In a non-variant game, how many activations could possibly occur in a single turn?

Assuming A, B, C, and E are already camped out on the President's Office, for just this situation.

*A plays SoE and plays XO on President B. B gets 2 activations.
*B gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (3), playing Resignation and handing the Presidency to C.
*C gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (4).
*D activates Administration or Caprica and forces a transfer of the Presidency to E.
*E gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (5).

I think this is the maximum unless there are other ways to transfer the Presidency? Or is there another scenario which could be played out?


Couldn't you extend this to a 7p game, have another clyon play Caprica for another title transfer, and have player G get a 6th activation of Pres. Office?



BTW, Tory's gotta be having a huge skill card-gasm from all of this! wow
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ackmondual wrote:
schmloof wrote:
Last night, I was playing a game in which the President's Office was activated 4 times via the use of a variant Skill Card (Give the Order: Activate a location you do not occupy).

A State of Emergency was played, and the President was the recipient of an Executive Order. He activated the office twice, then once more on his own action granted by the SoE. Then, a revealed Cylon activated Caprica, and the Crisis forced the transfer of the Presidency to another player, who then played Give the Order to activate the Office.

So I got to thinking. In a non-variant game, how many activations could possibly occur in a single turn?

Assuming A, B, C, and E are already camped out on the President's Office, for just this situation.

*A plays SoE and plays XO on President B. B gets 2 activations.
*B gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (3), playing Resignation and handing the Presidency to C.
*C gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (4).
*D activates Administration or Caprica and forces a transfer of the Presidency to E.
*E gets his action granted by SoE and activates the office (5).

I think this is the maximum unless there are other ways to transfer the Presidency? Or is there another scenario which could be played out?


Couldn't you extend this to a 7p game, have another clyon play Caprica for another title transfer, and have player G get a 6th activation of Pres. Office?



BTW, Tory's gotta be having a huge skill card-gasm from all of this! wow


Should be, so max is 6.
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Robert Stewart
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Can't you just use the SoE chain to get as many activations as you want?
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Daniel Loke
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But they'd have to be president. Or is there another SoE chain that you are talking about?
 
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schmloof wrote:
But they'd have to be president. Or is there another SoE chain that you are talking about?
there was a thread where in theory, you can keep spamming SoE since it didn't say once per turn (probably near impossible to do in practice), so the BSG group on BGG took it as a challenge. Assuming that's been proven true, if you have unlimited SoE's, then it won't matter who's president.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
schmloof wrote:
But they'd have to be president. Or is there another SoE chain that you are talking about?
there was a thread where in theory, you can keep spamming SoE since it didn't say once per turn (probably near impossible to do in practice), so the BSG group on BGG took it as a challenge. Assuming that's been proven true, if you have unlimited SoE's, then it won't matter who's president.


I don't think it's all that possible to resolve So# more than two times, maybe three times? So that's 9 tops.
 
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darthbalmung wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
schmloof wrote:
But they'd have to be president. Or is there another SoE chain that you are talking about?
there was a thread where in theory, you can keep spamming SoE since it didn't say once per turn (probably near impossible to do in practice), so the BSG group on BGG took it as a challenge. Assuming that's been proven true, if you have unlimited SoE's, then it won't matter who's president.


I don't think it's all that possible to resolve So# more than two times, maybe three times? So that's 9 tops.


I haven't found the thread that explains the SoE chain, so it may be possible to do better, but:

Assuming everyone holds Consolidate Power, the Leadership deck is empty, and the current player holds both SoE and an Executive Order:

Current Player (A) plays SoE and then XO on the next player (B) (pending actions: BB,BCDEF. B CPs for SoE and another card then plays SoE (pending actions: BCDEFA,BCDEF). B CPs again for SoE, C-A do whatever, and B plays SoE (pending actions: BCDEFA,CDEF). B and D-A do whatever, while C CPs for SoE, then plays it (pending actions: CDEFAB,DEF). Similarly for D, E and F.

7 plays of State of Emergency in a single turn, 8 with a seventh player - 9 if the current player is Cavil and uses his OPG to play and redraw SoE an extra time. That's a total of 9*7+3=66 actions, of which 9 are playing SoE, 8 are CPs for SoE, and one is an XO - that leaves 48 actions free (CDEFGABDEFGACEFGAB...).

The Quorum deck can be reduced to 17 cards, with a hand-size limit of 10, so after 3 Office activations, it can reach 16, and on the 4th and subsequent activations, playing Resignation will redraw the other 16 cards and pass the title for free - if E is VP and C is President (drawing Quorum to reach 12), then D's first action can be to use Administration (making E President), E draws Quorum (14), F elects G, who draws Quorum (16). A elects E. B wastes an action somehow, D moves to the Office and E draws the final Quorum card and plays Resignation. F needs to use an action to move to the Office, and A (Cylon Leader Cavil) can't become President, but otherwise every remaining action is to draw and play Resignation to pass the Presidency to the next President.

Of the 48 actions not used on SoE/CP/XO for the chain, 5 are Cavil's, 2 more are used in Administration, 2 used moving to the President's Office, and 1 "wasted" by B, which, by my count allows 38 activations of the President's Office in a single turn, 3 of which are drawing two Quorum cards, one is drawing a Quorum card and playing Resignation, and the remaining 34 are drawing and playing Resignation.
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The guy who bought up the infinite SoE chain was me, but it was another guy who made it.

Essentially, it relies on you discarding a card as you resolve it, which I'm a bit fuzzy on now but I do think is correct.

Here's his post. Note that he's doing this from turn 1, not from an arbitrary start point:

Quote:
There are a few slightly different ways to do it. They all require a massive amount of luck with card draws to set up. One example would be a seven player game with the character choices being: Apollo, "Caprica" Six, Tom Zarek, William Adama, Helo, Dee and Tory. For their starting three cards everyone except Tory draws as much leadership as possible for a total of 9 cards. Their remaining draws are all politics (4 cards total) apart from Dee and Helo who draw tactics. As the skill decks are 30 cards (with all the expansions) and the destiny deck will remove another 2 cards, we are left with 19 cards in the leadership deck and 24 in politics with no cards in either discard pile (L19(0)/P24(0)). Assume that Tory draws both support the peoples and Zarek a Political Prowess.

Apollo draws his starting hand and takes one card from leadership and one from politics. We need his draw to include critical situation, state of emergency and consolidate power. In the movement phase he plays critical situation to get an action to play state of emergency and then discards a piloting to move back to Galatica (his viper is returned to the reserves) (L18(1)/P23(0)).

Six then activates Caprica to play a crisiss and happens to draw medical breakthrough, Tory plays support the people and everyone except Tory draws as much leadership as they can (9 cards). Since Dee has only one leadership she also draws a tactics) and Tory draws two politics. Dee uses her OPG to draw three leadership cards and keeps them. Finally everyone plays all their leadership and politics (except for Apollo's consolidate power) and the destiny deck it's two politics which will definitely reach the twelve difficulty. W. Adama uses his OPG to draw the played cards into his hand and then the pass effect of the crisis card allows every human to draw a card. Everybody draws leadership (L0(1)/P21(1)).

Zarek plays his one quorum card, which happens to be assign vice president, on W. Adama and draws two politics cards. Tory uses her ability to draw a politics and a leadership. As the leadership pile is empty the discard pile is shuffled in and she draws state of emergency (L0(0)/P18(1)).

W. Adama discards an engineering to move to president's office (L0(0)/P18(1)).

Helo is absent (L0(0)/P18(1)).

Dee moves to command (L0(0)/P18(1)).

Tory plays state of emergency and uses the granted action to draw two politics with press office (L0(1)/P16(1)).

Apollo plays consolidate power to draw a politics and a leadership. The leadership will be state of emergency and we will assume the politics is consolidate power (L0(0)/P15(2)).

Six plays fulfiller of prophecy. W. Adama plays support the people and every human except him draws two cards. Everyone who can draw politics does (6 cards). Helo's and Dee's draws will be tactics instead. No cards are played on the skill check and the destiny deck provides two leadership that adds up to at least six thus triggering the pass effect. Apollo draws a politics card (L0(2)/P8(3)).

Zarek activates administration on W. Adama and W. Adama uses political prowess to auto succeed the check thus gaining the presidency (L0(2)/P8(4)).

W. Adama uses the president's office to draw and play assign chief of staff on Zarek then W. Adama and Tory draw two politics and two leadership respectively (L0(0)/P6(4)).

Helo is absent (L0(0)/P6(4)).

Dee uses command to activate an arbitrary viper then to launch a viper. Apollo launches in the viper and uses his free action to play state of emergency then discards his last piloting to move back to Galactica (L0(1)/P6(4)).

Six plays the temple of the five, a skill check crisis. The destiny deck provides two engineering or tactics with total value 9+ thus passing the check. The pass effect allows Apollo to draw two cards and he chooses politics. Assume that at least one of the cards he draws is a consolidate power (L0(0)/P4(4)).

Zarek is assumed to have drawn consolidate power earlier and plays it to draw two politics (L0(1)/P2(5)).

W. Adama uses the president's office to draw and play assign arbitrator then he draws two politics and Tory draws state of emergency and a politics card (L0(0)/P4(0)).

Helo is absent (L0(0)/P4(0)).

Dee declines to act (L0(0)/P4(0)).

Tory plays state of emergency and uses the granted action to play consolidate power (which she is assumed to have drawn when she last drew politics cards) she draws two politics. She is assumed to draw political prowess as one of cards. The politics deck is now entirely made up of support the peoples and/or consolidate powers and Apollo has at least two consolidate powers in his six card hand(L0(1)/P2(0)).

From this point on you can loop indefinitely with no luck factor. Apollo uses consolidate power to draw state of emergency and a politics card which will be either consolidate power or support the people (so long as none else discards any other politics cards) if the later then he plays it on a skill check the next time he has 5 or less cards to draw two politics at least one of which must be a consolidate power. Finally someone uses command to launch him and give him an extra action to play state of emergency then discard a card to return him and his viper to Galactica. His hand is kept topped up with extra cards to discard with support the people.

On the next cycle W. Adama uses a quorum card to allow Tory to draw state of Emergency and any other card of her choice. He can avoid being forced to play bad quorum cards by drawing two cards on Apollo's cycles. Tory can then play state of emergency on her action, and we then return to Apollo's part of the loop.

The only random factor is the quorum deck, but as we can control when skill checks occur we can make sure to only refill the deck when the leadership pile is empty so state of emergency will not be sucked up into the destiny deck and the destiny deck will never discard cards into the leadership deck. Also the only politics cards in the deck will be ones we have discarded at some point so there is no risk of unwanted politics cards appearing. Also many characters are not needed to maintain the loop so they can use their free actions to draw up the tactics deck so that we can spam guts and initiative to ignore destiny altogether.

Once the tactics deck has been drawn we can concentrate on drawing engineering cards, which can be used on any skill check thanks to scientific research. Meanwhile six keeps looping the crises deck and looking for those cards that will give +1 jump prep if a check is passed. Once we our one jump from success and jump prep is one off auto jump she stops playing crises. As our food will have long ago hit zero due to repeated use of state of emergency and other resources may also be at zero we cannot jump immediately. Instead we store up actions for the president by having someone who acts before him activate command. As the state of emergency loop was not finished the stored actions will resolve as soon as we stop playing state of emergency. The president can use this arbitrarily high number of actions to play quorum cards to restore all resources to an arbitrarily high number then activate FTL control to win the game.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Ah, yes, Tory and Apollo both have ways to cheat - Tory by drawing SoE on someone else's action, and Apollo by playing SoE on someone else's action...
 
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Beside the awesome analysis by rmsgrey, I love the fact that GtO can open up new ways of trying to break the system. (and that you're still playing Revelations without me nagging you)
 
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