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Subject: Want to know why certain card is banned? Ask it here! rss

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Erik Twice
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I've noticed that many people wonder why there are banned cards in tournaments and what could have caused them. Since finding the official statements is difficult for newbies and many broken cards were banned before Wizards had a good site, I figured having people ask here is a good idea.

So go on!

PD: Please list the format if possible. Cards banned in one format may be fair in other.
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Cyrus the Great
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Why: The card is "too good." (generally meaning so good that almost every deck must play that card to be good.) Sometimes this means Wizards screwed up (like Jace, the Mind Sculptor or the original power cards), other times printing the card wasn't a mistake but it is better for the format that it is banned (this is the case for most of the bannings when Modern was created, since none of the cards banned were designed with Modern in mind.)
Which cards: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=judge/reso... is a complete list sorted by format.
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Cyrus the Great
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Also, all of the Un- and holiday cards are not tournament legal (but not "banned," since they were never legal.) Older cards that talk about the "ante," such as Amulet of Quoz, are also banned in formats they would otherwise be legal in, because the ante no longer exists.
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Sean Franco
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I am curious which decks Green Sun's Zenith would break in Modern? Did they have any specifics in mind?
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Simon Tan
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logopolys wrote:
I am curious which decks Green Sun's Zenith would break in Modern? Did they have any specifics in mind?


If the reasoning of Wizards is to be believed, the answer is "any green deck." It isn't as much as breaking a deck as it is about being able to go into any green deck...

From their September 2011 B&R List Explanation:

Quote:
On turn one, this can give the acceleration of a Llanowar Elves by getting a Dryad Arbor. On later turns, it can get a large creature or a one-of "toolbox" creature such as Gaddock Teeg. While this is interesting, it is also too efficient. If one intends to build a deck that has turn-one accelerants, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. If one wants to more access to utility green creatures, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. If one wants to more reliably get a large green creature, such as a Primeval Titan, onto the battlefield, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. However, this ends up with fewer different decks being played in practice, as Green Sun's Zenith is such a good choice that there are fewer green decks that do anything else. The DCI hopes that banning Green Sun's Zenith increases diversity among Modern green decks.


As a reference, from Pro Tour Philadelphia on September 2011, by looking at the top green decks it wasn't easy to find one that didn't run the full 4x Green Sun's Zenith.
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Erik Twice
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logopolys wrote:
I am curious which decks Green Sun's Zenith would break in Modern? Did they have any specifics in mind?

There wasn't any specific deck they wanted to cut, rather, they simply heavily disliked the idea of every green deck having access to a powerful toolbox. It gives you acceleration via Arbor's Driad (The Forest/Creature hybrid), it gives you silver bullets and does a lot of cool things. Is it broken? Well, I don't think so, but it's certainly powerful and Wizards is incredibly afraid of anything that could dominate the Pro Tour season.

When they created Modern they knew there were some very powerful strategies in the card pool. Faeries, Ravnica-era Zoo and Affinity were great and Umezawa's Jitte caused the ire of many players back in the day. The format doesn't have a large card pool and they fear any strong strategy couldn't be fought by other because there just aren't enough cards. Three turn kills are incredibly fast yet common so there's certainly something to worry about.

It's pretty fucked up to ban Preordain and Ponder, though, and many feel all the fun cards are getting the cut but I can see why Wizards is so scared. They are investing a lot into the format and they can't have it fail at inception. Better make it boring than have it break, I guess.

Have to say that many players are flabbergasted at how many cards are banned in Modern. It has more banned cards than any other format ever and they were banning two more cards each three months for a good while.

Hope that explains what's going on with Modern and most of its banlist.
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Sean Franco
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On the theme of cards recently rotated from Standard...

Why is Primeval Titan banned from EDH? Are there land combos that I cannot yet see, or is the ramp too strong?
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Steve Wagner
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On the same story that Green Sun's Zenith was banned in Modern. Primeval Titan was being played in every green deck and was searching up lands that made games get big real fast. Then the other players started cloning or copying the Titan, so it made the whole game focused on just him.

See this link for more on it.
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Dan Regs
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When the Modern format was first introduced it was basically a two deck format Blue-red combo (storm or other-storm); or Big mana decks running off of cloudpost.

Part of the goal of modern was to have a diverse format, and to axe any potential turn 2 game-winning combo. Ponder, Preordain, and Cloudpost all had to go to accomplish these goals.
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Matt Vollick
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The big thing WOTC tries to push with Modern is no turn 1 or turn 2 kills and only very rarely turn 3 kills, thus all the really good storm cards and Ponder and Preordain are out.

I really think they could unban GSZ and even Jace, the Mind Sculptor in Modern and I don't think it would break the format but it might shake things up a bit and see where the new meta shifts.
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fightcitymayor
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DID YOU KNOW:
Everyone's favorite Red one-drop was once BANNED in Extended (pre-cursor to today's Modern)?
It's true!



Next question: Is 'Extended' still even a recognized format?

 
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Joakim Björklund
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fightcitymayor wrote:
DID YOU KNOW:
Everyone's favorite Red one-drop was once BANNED in Extended (pre-cursor to today's Modern)?
It's true!



Next question: Is 'Extended' still even a recognized format?



Wasn't Kird Ape banned in Type 1 (before it was called Type 1) as well, way back when it was printed in just Arabian Nights?

Extended is still recognized, but I think it is very unsupported. Modern will become legal for FNM next year, so I think they want that to take Extended's place. I wouldn't mind some Extended myself at the FNM, but it looks like it won't happen.
 
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Joakim Björklund
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JockiB wrote:
Wasn't Kird Ape banned in Type 1 (before it was called Type 1) as well, way back when it was printed in just Arabian Nights?


I finally found some info on old restricted/banned lists:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37514.0;wap2 (almost last on the page).

I remembered the wrong card. It was Rukh Egg that was briefly restricted between 1994/01/25 and 1994/02/23.

Oh well, that's almost 19 years ago (and I started playing in the autumn of '94). So perhaps I can be forgiven for not remembering the right card...
 
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Dan Regs
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fightcitymayor wrote:


Next question: Is 'Extended' still even a recognized format?



Extended is still a recognized format. It's a rotating format that contains twice the card pool of standard - or about the last 4 years (approx 16 sets) worth of cards. Tournament Organizers have been able to run Extended events as FNM since it was revamped, but it never really took off.
 
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