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Subject: WoW with 6 characters - a wierd experience rss

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Jesper A
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My 3rd playing of Wow

This was my third time with Worls of Warcraft: The Board Game.

The first 2 times I really liked it, both clocked in at 4-5 hours for 4 characters - including rules explanation. Ok.... player interaction are nonexistant, but that's ok. The only inteeraction would be PvP combat, but that really isn't worthwhile.

This time we played with 6 characters. I don't know what went wrong, but i don't like the game anymore and i doubt it will see the table ever again. That's too bad, because the forst 3 times I liked it - It would have gotten an eight - despite it's longish playing time - about 5 hours. How we could ever get that down to 2 as it says on the box will remain a mystery.

Anyway.....

we started the game, and we followed each other pretty close exp wise. We had one PvP battle in the middle of the game. The Alliance couldn't resist as we would gain 5 exp a character gold via 2 event cards. We played the game as usual, but the game where longer than the 2 first times I played.

That was expected as there where 2 extra characters in the game. When we reached turn 30 no one had defrated the overlord and all but one had reached level 5. At this time one or two players where beginning to get a little bored. At this time we had been playing for 5 hours and 45 min. We all filled up to full health and energy, and the final PvP battle commenced. The dice wsa thrown again and again and again....... thousands of dice where thown. 4 or 5 rounds int the battle no one really cared anymore, but we played on to see how long it would take to finish. At the end The alliance gave up. Each character had 1 health left and no energy.... well some had but nowhere to use it.

The final PvP battle went on for over 3 hours - THREE HOURS!!!!!

The game lasted allmost 9 hours plus setup and throwing it all back in the box

We met at 6:00 pm and went home at 3:50 am allmost 10 hours later. In this time I would rather play 4-10 other games.

Nobody really want to play again, and we didn't even bother to rate the game as we usually do.

A game this long really kills my desire to play it again, and I will sadly have to give it a rating of 2

 
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Gary Bradley
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Hmmm. I had pretty much the same feeling after my first game, which only involved 4 players and 4 hours in total. It just went on too long, and was in fact a bit boring. Aside from myself, NONE of the others ever want to see this game again, and since that pretty much accounts for the sum total of my boardgame buddies, it looks like I will never play this game again either. I would like to give it one more go, but I suspect its ebay-bound already.

I was so keyed up for this game that this is a crushing disappointment, especially since it was my main Xmas pressie. I cannot quite work out what went wrong. These are people who happily play Runebound and Arkham Horror. I think there were just too many dice and too many figures. The downtime in this game is very bad, even if the other players plan their moves in advance. Percentage-wise, WoW probably has the same amount of downtime as AH or RB, but it comes less frequently and for much longer periods each time, which is a killer for a boardgame. Short and frequent downtime is much more tolerable for casual players than long and infrequent.
 
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Niels Taatgen
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My experience up to now, after playing it three times, is that it is a game that you have to get into. At some point figuring out the dice pool and applying the results really speeds up, limiting the down-time, and also giving you some more insights into the more tactical and strategical aspects of the game. I don't know how much experience your third group had with the game, but that might have been an issue.
It also sounds from your experience that the deadly PvP optional rule is the way to go.
 
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Nigel Buckle
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I had a similar experience, but thought it was down to playing 2 player, with 2 characters each.

End feeling was the game was too long - with too much downtime and a lack of interaction

Now maybe it depends on the quests drawn? But we didn't really see much reason to go searching for PvP combat. Which is a shame as I want to like the game, I like the character classes and the individual mechanics - just the whole game doesn't quite come together - but this is after only a couple of games.

Maybe if you played and played the gametime would drop and it would become a much more rewarding experience, problem is with so many other games out there to play I can't see this one getting played enough to get to that level.

But the real problem with the game for me is the downtime between turns, having a 'your turn' 'my turn' mechanic is okay but not when the turn can take 15 minutes or more and I do nothing much during that time, means the game runs 4+ hours and half the time I'm not doing anything, now this probably true of lots of games - but the downtime is in little chunks, WoW has it in large chunks which makes it much more noticable and much more of a problem I'd guestimate each turn takes 10-15 minutes, which is quite a long time to 'wait', longer if the players are new to the game or have just levelled up or involved in a big combat.

I'm wondering if the game could be altered so you alternate player actions, but with some way to jump in and use an action early to meet a challenge as a group. That way you still have the same downtime but it's spread out more.
 
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Ryan Goodwin
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alfons wrote:
My 3rd playing of Wow

We met at 6:00 pm and went home at 3:50 am allmost 10 hours later. In this time I would rather play 4-10 other games.

Nobody really want to play again, and we didn't even bother to rate the game as we usually do.

A game this long really kills my desire to play it again, and I will sadly have to give it a rating of 2



I would give it another chance. I would encourage you to try the deadly PvP rules, which speed up PvP combat. As for 10 hours to play...I could see that if you translated the rules and cards into italian and back using babelfish....or you just like to take your time...
 
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Jesper A
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We played as fast as possible - with all the correct rules. We leveled up out of turn to speed things up, and did what we could to save time.

I don't see this hitting the table again for a looong time - we have to forget this experience first.
 
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J. Green
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I'm SO glad you posted this, and thanks for all the good comments...I've got my copy all ready to go and I'm loving hearing all the comments from people on what made the game lousy for them so I can figure out ways to make it more fun the FIRST time my group plays it. Sounds like I'm definitely going to use either the Deadly PVP option or the 'Defeat the Overlord' option and keep going after round 30...

AND...I'm going to suggest that the Alliance and horde play SIMULTANEOUSLY...forget alternating faction turns, man, we're gonna use two markers, one for the Alliance and one for the Horde, and we're only going to stop if there's a PVP battle. I got a big, wide table, and I see no reason why we can't run it that way.

There's no way I'm not going to figure out how to make this game playable in 2-3 hours AND fun for everybody, AND reduce the downtime, after spending that much money.

A game is nothing but a bunch of components and a bunch of rules, and I think if you buy a game and something doesn't work quite the way you thought, you should use your creativity to fix it rather than giving up on it. That's a waste of money and ingenuity. Who knows, you might find the perfect solution that could make the experience better for many more people!
 
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Matthew M
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bookgnome wrote:

AND...I'm going to suggest that the Alliance and horde play SIMULTANEOUSLY...forget alternating faction turns, man, we're gonna use two markers, one for the Alliance and one for the Horde, and we're only going to stop if there's a PVP battle. I got a big, wide table, and I see no reason why we can't run it that way.


New independent monsters popping in the opposing faction path due to your new quest draw is one reason not to play it that way. New market items and events that are resolved during a specific faction's turn is another. Figuring out who has won a war or reached the mini-boss first is a third.

-MMM
 
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J. Green
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Quote:
Quote:
bookgnome wrote:

AND...I'm going to suggest that the Alliance and horde play SIMULTANEOUSLY...forget alternating faction turns, man, we're gonna use two markers, one for the Alliance and one for the Horde, and we're only going to stop if there's a PVP battle. I got a big, wide table, and I see no reason why we can't run it that way.


New independent monsters popping in the opposing faction path due to your new quest draw is one reason not to play it that way. New market items and events that are resolved during a specific faction's turn is another. Figuring out who has won a war or reached the mini-boss first is a third.


Okay, okay, you got me there, thrice. But anyway, I've got an RPG loving crowd that might be willing to sit for that long with enough beer, and maybe they can play something else during their faction downtime, like Monopoly! Seriously though, I'm sure we can figure out a way to make it work.

Anybody got ideas for how to burn the WoW downtime between turns?
 
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Jesper A
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bookgnome wrote:


Anybody got ideas for how to burn the WoW downtime between turns?


Plan what you want to do in your own turn. Downtime ain't *that* bad - exept when there's PvP and you're not involved.

 
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Court
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I do think that unless you have the "right" crowd coming to the table; ways of addressing the downtime and player interaction are needed.

If you have a social group that likes to catch-up and chat in-between rounds great, but otherwise, people that aren't "in" to the theme and the management and observing the other side are going to get tired real fast.

People with limited free game time should probably stay away - or perhaps play a copy prior to purchasing.

I would NOT want to play this game with the following types of people (i.e. this game isn't for these sorts of people):
1. People who generally suffer from analysis paralysis.
2. People who have no patience - or who must otherwise be constantly engaged/active with the medium. I.e. people who absolutely cannot stand any downtime at all. The downtime here can be managed, but only to an extent.
3. People who aren't already interested in the theme (either indirectly into fantasy, or particularly Warcraft).
4. People who don't recognize that it is a team-race game...

Of course, that's just my opinion... but I think it will hold true for many people.
 
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Jesper A
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We are none of these people, but for this type of game 9 hours are way too long for any crowd. In the end none of us cared anymore. We usually play once a week for 6-10 hours, so time isn't an issue. buy, hey.... 3 hours for the final PvP battle is asking for way too much. I liked it the first 2 times i played it though - 4 chracters clocking in at 4 hours...... a little on the long side for what it is, but acceptable.


 
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Roy Stephens
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I concur that the Deadly PvP option is absolutely essential. The standard PvP rules are backbreaking as far as length of time to resolve conflict.

As far as how to manage downtime, on my very first game, a 6 player one, we never had any real problem with downtime. During the other faction's turn, we discussed our next turn's plan; who would quest where, if help would be needed, where to go afterwards, in what order to take actions, etc... Also, if we were getting near a level, we started planning what talent and skills we would take. The game flowed very smoothly and we often found our turn coming around EARLIER than we wanted it to. I have played 2 sessions this holiday weekend w/ my brother in law (1 on 1, 4 characters) and have had a blast with it. The downtime is a bit longer due to having to manage 2 characters, but it is balanced by no disagreements on which character gets which item. :-)

 
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Mike zebrowski
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bookgnome wrote:
I'm SO glad you posted this, and thanks for all the good comments...I've got my copy all ready to go and I'm loving hearing all the comments from people on what made the game lousy for them so I can figure out ways to make it more fun the FIRST time my group plays it.


I'd advocate not using the optional rules for the first playthrough. "Defeat the Overlord" will lengthen the game as the time limit is removed and players will advance more carefully. If you are worried about the game running long due to PvP combat, just invoke "Deadly PvP" after the 3rd round of any PvP battle. This way you can see the difference and determine which style you prefer.

Quote:
There's no way I'm not going to figure out how to make this game playable in 2-3 hours AND fun for everybody, AND reduce the downtime, after spending that much money.


Now that I am playing the final game and not running playtests, I am noticing that downtime isn't a problem for me. I spend so much of my off-turn calculating what to do next, that I rarely notice the downtime. There is a large amount of data to collect and study to figure out the optimal path forward. For example, I am always looking for the right combination of quests (soloing vs grouping) to do so that I (or a teammate) will level up and thus save my team from taking a rest action.

Having extra sets of dice helps speed up combat. I often have my character "primed" before it is my turn to roll the dice. I take a set of dice and place the dice on the cards that I will be using (along with the energy counters for Instant powers). That way, when it is my turn, I am not spending time figuring out which dice to roll.

Another way to speed things up is to have the other team place your quest creatures out when spawning a new quest. After all, after you pick which color of quest to do, it is a rather mechanical process to place the monsters. While the other team is placing the monsters, you can handle the rewards from your current quest.

The best way to speed things up is to make sure that everyone is spending their off-turn planning ahead. I've noticed that some gamers have lost the ability to plan ahead and don't start planning until it is their turn.

Mike Z
 
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Hrvoje Roncevic
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I agree with most of remarks posted here.

My experience was that the game takes 4-8hrs. That is very dependent whether each chacarter is going solo or in a group and if it is 4v4 or 6v6 game.

After a few tries we lost almost all "casual gamers" (that like puerto rico and settlers) for whome game was to long and to complicated. For the rest of us ("serious gamers") I think we will have another go, as most of us played D&D, we just love the setting and combat rules give a nice roleplaying feeling.

Downtime is a serious problem. Especialy since none of us play WoW online, so we dont know the characters nor good development paths. My guess is that each of us has to specialize in a couple of characters and play few games with them. If not leveling takes too long, and people always complain on bad choice of talents.

I dont have problems with long PvPs (ours never took more then couple of turns) cause we are all involved.

What we do have problems with is oposing side turn. It takes a long time, even if we level while other side is playing. I will explore that idea with both teams playing at the same time and drawing quest cards at the end of the turn. PvP and wars seem to pose a problem, but I hope to work around it.

Generaly I like the game, I like the combat mechanics, creatures (figurines and powers) and charactes. I just hope we can pull it of in 3-4 hrs.
 
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Gary Bradley
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bookgnome wrote:
Anybody got ideas for how to burn the WoW downtime between turns?


Go play Runebound? I mean you would have enough time to do so, and have a LOT more fun anyway, I guarentee it.
 
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Steve Bernhardt
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An extra set of dice does wonders in terms of downtime. Also, dont be afraid to attack the overlord encounter... I haven't seen a game that ended in a pvp battle yet, because the overlord was dead around turn 24-25.

Everyone should make sure they are playing correctly also, ive seen people think that each team got a turn every turn.

Ive found Descent can take longer than WoW, for the most part... people can get really cautious and that game doesnt have the game turn timer that WoW has.

I still think 6 hours to get to the final pvp encounter is way too long, are you playing with AP guys?
 
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Jesper A
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wargamer66 wrote:
I still think 6 hours to get to the final pvp encounter is way too long, are you playing with AP guys?


No, and we didn't have much downtime at all. A PvP battle around turn 18 slowed things down for a while though.

 
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