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Courtier» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shrewd rss

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Rik Van Horn
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This cards says "Move any one influence marker to an empty space."
Where can this marker come from? Any player? The general pool?
 
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Ken Grazier
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South Euclid
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Move implies it has to come from a spot on the board.
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Philip duBarry
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Ken is correct.
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Edward Bolme
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Philip is correct that Ken is correct.

Seriously, though, "place" takes it from your pool, "move" shuffles it around the board.
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Ben Horne
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We found ourselves in an intense rules conversation last night when a player tried to use 'Shrewd' to move influence from the reserve to the board. A shrewd move to be sure, but one the rest of us took objection to. What follows is our attempt to hash out the legitimacy of the player's move, not having read this thread. The following is also a really good argument for simply house ruling and moving on.

While the rest of us suspected something like the place/move distinctions clarified here, there didn't seem to be an official word from the rule book. There were two arguments we used to press the case that, though quite shrewd, the move was illegitimate:

1) The FAQ exhausts possibilities for gaining influence. While 'Charismatic' is explicitly noted as a power card that allows the player to gain influence,'Shrewd' is not. This argument was rejected by the shrewd player on the grounds that 'gaining influence' is ambiguous between a)increasing the difference between the total number of a player's markers and the number of markers from that player in the reserve (my interpretation) and b)increasing the number of markers in a player's pool (not sure if he actually believed this to be the correct interpretation or was just being playfully obstinate). The shrewd player argued that his move would be illegitimate only under interpretation (a). By moving a marker from the reserve to the board he was not increasing the total number of markers in his pool and, thus, not gaining any influence under interpretation (b).

2) The second argument was a counterexample purported to follow from the shrewd player's move, were it legitimate. Since the shrewd player's argument was that 'Shrewd' didn't specify any location from which to take the marker, it would also seem legitimate to take another players marker from the scoring track and place it on any courtier's empty space robbing that player of his scoring track points. The shrewd player acknowledged this to be an interesting counterexample, but he argued that a player thus deprived of his scoring marker could still retain or gain points on the track-albeit without the aid of his scoring marker.

I thought he was merely trying to be funny, but he continued to claim that he had not seen sufficient evidence to declare his move illegitimate and would need a house rule. At that point, we gave him his wish. However, we noted that his refusal to admit the move illegitimate was clearly absurd, and then we poured him more whisky.

Btw, I will end by noting something that is probably not worth noting. The explanations of 'move' offered by Ken and Edward are still consistent with moving a marker from the scoring track to an empty space. If someone tries to make this move in your gaming session, perhaps you should follow the advice of the Love Letter rules and refuse to play with such knaves.
 
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Edward Bolme
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wow

The rules are also silent on the idea that you can move a marker from your copy of Dominare to the board. whistle

You only ever play from your pool unless otherwise specified.
 
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Ben Horne
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edbolme wrote:

The rules are also silent on the idea that you can move a marker from your copy of Dominare to the board.whistle

You only ever play from your pool unless otherwise specified.


Considering that we were already discussing who would buy Dominare after our first games of Love Letter and Courtier, I'll make sure to bring this constraint to the shrewd player's attention. meeple
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