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Subject: Clarifications & Errata rss

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Steve Carey
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Please feel free to post items here, and I'll update as needed. Thank you for all your help and patience.

Rule Book

[clarification] Players can ignore the Garrison Forces rules [9.4.4]; they are not used in Fading Glory.

[clarification] When playing with the Leaders optional rule [16.9], the 3 rated Napoleon counter is used; see Waterloo 20 Exclusive optional rule [16.9.9], French Wing Commanders, for potential use of the 2 rated counter.

Counters

[misprint] The Wellington and Blucher Leader counters have their reverse side color schemes switched (this only applies when using both the Optional Fog of War: Hidden Units [16.1] and Leaders [16.9] rules).

Play Aid: Terrain Effects Chart

[typo] References in the Key to postscript 4 (Hazardous Retreat) should be to 9.8.3/9.8.4 (not 9.83/9.84).

[clarification] Fords at Major Rivers cost +1 MP to cross, Fords at Minor Rivers cost 0 MP to cross.

[clarification] The Hazardous Retreat notation for Pontoon Bridges doesn not apply to Borodino or Smolensk (as noted in the Playbook, [6.0 ] and [6.11] respectively).

Morale Chart

[typo] The Guard no Advance after Combat reference should be 12.2.2, not 12.22.

Borodino 20

[misprint] The fortified hex of The Great Redoubt (0904) is also a Russian Objective hex (as correctly noted in the Playbook).

[typo] [6.10.1] Smyonovskaya is Semenovskaya (0906).

Salamanca 20

[typo] British Cotton 2-3 Cavalry counter should be Cav (not Cv).

[clarification] [9.8.6] The third French (North) LOC is a reference to if/when the AdN 2-3 unit comes into play (as noted in 14.1).

[clarification] [14.0] The French and Allied Objective Hexes as listed are flip-flopped (these are correctly noted on the map).

[clarification] [17.1] The French Morale marker (not the Turn marker) has its "Marmont Wounded" side placed face up.

[addition] The Chauvel Rides [11.7], Optional Fog of War: Hidden units [16.1], and Leader [16.9] rules are also not intended for use in the fixed setup Historical Battle Scenario, [17.3].

Smolensk 20

[clarification] The symbol in hexes 0810 and 0909 are for artistic purposes only (they represent fortified citadels); both hexes are properly outlined as being Fortified.

[typo] [17.0] Hex 0805 should be V & Barclay.

Waterloo 20

[typo] French leader counter Groucy should be Grouchy.

[misprint] The British I Corps (4-2) should have its movement allowance printd in black, not red (it is an elite unit, but not a guard).

[misprint] Bridges should be present at all Road crossings over Rivers (i.e., crossing a Minor River via Road is +0 MP).

[clarification] [3.0] Use either the British or Prussian Morale counter for Allied Morale ("British" and "Allied" are used interchangeably).

[clarification] The far right hex on the map key illustrates a road, not a town.
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Tanks Alot
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In the waterloo scenario, under prussian; Broken Adv Guard (page 3 top left of page) ... I didnt understand where to place the unit.
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Steve Carey
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charlescab wrote:
In the waterloo scenario, under prussian; Broken Adv Guard (page 3 top left of page) ... I didnt understand where to place the unit.


Hi Charles - the unit is "Broken" (9.6.1) and is off-map at setup. As per the ** note, it can be Rallied normally (see 10.0).
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Lee Troutman
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I had not played Waterloo 20 before, so sorry if this has already been addressed.

The rules speak of "Allied Morale" as one total, but there are Morale markers for the Anglo-Dutch and the Prussians. I assumed the rules were correct.
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Steve Carey
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That's my understanding as well, Lee - either marker can be used for Allied Morale I suppose ("British" and "Allied" are used interchangeably).
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Jay Sheely
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Might as well post here instead of brand new thread.

Let's say an enemy's unit is broken: I gain a moral point and the opponent loses one? That's the +1 and -1 on the moral chart right?

Also, are we going to see some Civil War 20 games anytime soon?

And by the way... hell of a game!!
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Steve Carey
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Man or Astroman wrote:
Let's say an enemy's unit is broken: I gain a moral point and the opponent loses one? That's the +1 and -1 on the moral chart right?


Right!

Man or Astroman wrote:
Also, are we going to see some Civil War 20 games anytime soon?


No idea - it's been several years and I have no recent info if that project is active or not.

Man or Astroman wrote:
And by the way... hell of a game!!


Glad to hear that you're enjoying it, Jay.

*FYI*, the Developer hasn't rec'd his copy of the game yet, so hopefully he'll be able to start responding - and also put the stamp of official approval here - soon.
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Jeff Cohen
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I echo a desperate need for ACW 20.

For Borodino 20:

mapboard - semenovskaya = playbook 6.10.1 - smyonovskaya ?

It sure seems that way, but I wanted to make sure.

-Jeff
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Steve Carey
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Jaif wrote:
mapboard - semenovskaya = playbook 6.10.1 - smyonovskaya?


Yes - looks like a carry over from the VPG version. Thnx Jeff.
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For Waterloo morale, what about this idea? Start both the Prussians and the British at 4 MPs. The French have to drive both to zero to win. When either the British or the Prussian morale goes to zero, all units of that army are considered as having a routed marker. During a night turn, British morale and Prussian morale each go up only 1 MP.

Well, the counter is there . . .
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Lance McMillan
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The game (Waterloo 20) was designed with a single combined Anglo-Prussian morale counter. In part, this was because of the (then) physical limitation of 40 counters for VPG's games, but it was also a deliberate feature of Joseph Miranda's design intent. About a year ago, when VPG re-did the game for the second edition, we asked Joe about whether he wanted to split that combined Allied morale into two separate morale tallies (one Anglo-Dutch and one Prussian) and he said that he felt it would not be appropriate to the situation. During testing of the second edition we briefly experimented with separate Anglo-Dutch and Prussian morale, but dropped the notion as we pretty quickly found it tended to skew game balance in the French player's favor.
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Actually, in my first test game, I misread the rules (partly based on the presence of the extra Prussian morale counter) and set up the Allied morale as having *both* the British and the Prussian morale at 7 MPs each. Needless to say, the game did not go well for the French!
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Steve Vance
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Questions and a couple comments.

Question: When moving along a road, does the +1 for crossing a minor river still apply? [In a strict application of the rules as written and on the TEC, it would, but I'm not sure that is intended. It's a critical point on the first turn in Waterloo, for example.] Same question on a road going up slope.

Comment: The TEC, Road, might do with a line about not having to stop in Rough, and maybe another line or clarifying footnote regarding the answer to the question above.

Comment: Waterloo, 12.0 Army Morale section, if taken literally as written and organized, indicates that the French "also" get a +1 on any turn that the Allied player force marches. [It's not just the "also" that is the culprit, but in on the crime as well are the introductory sentence (which deals only with the Allied side and ends with a colon, thus referencing the following bullet points), and the bullet points themselves.

Suggestion for next version: Move the intro sentence down inside the Allied bullet. Remove "also" from the French bullet. So...

12.3 Forced Marching:
* Allied: The Allied player has to distinguish...
* French: All French units have their Movement...

Edit: The above applies to the Rally section as well.
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Ivano Rosa
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Steve Carey wrote:

[misprint] The Wellington and Blucher Leader counters have their reverse side color schemes switched (this only applies when using both the Optional Fog of War: Hidden Units [16.1] and Leaders [16.9] rules).


awaiting my copy...

what is the estimated percentage that is lost in gameplay with this errata?

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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Great game and a great system overall! Thanks to VPG and GMT for publishing this gem.

One question we had regarding Waterloo:

What is the status of the Roads crossing the Minor Rivers? We're assuming they are not technically Bridges or Fords, so when Downpour occurs and these same Minor Rivers becomes Major Rivers, are these crossings washed away (i.e., units may not cross the Minor Rivers at all during a Downpour)?

Thanks!

Hermann
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Lance McMillan
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Grouchy wrote:
When moving along a road, does the +1 for crossing a minor river still apply? [In a strict application of the rules as written and on the TEC, it would, but I'm not sure that is intended. It's a critical point on the first turn in Waterloo, for example.] Same question on a road going up slope.


If the river crossing is marked by a bridge or ford, then the appropriate bridge/ford crossing costs apply (i.e. for a bridge, or a ford over a minor river, the movement cost is zero; for a ford over a major river, +1 crossing cost). If the river is unbridged, then the usual river crossing cost applies (i.e. +1 for a minor river, impassable for a major river).

Grouchy wrote:
Waterloo, 12.0 Army Morale section, if taken literally as written and organized, indicates that the French "also" get a +1 on any turn that the Allied player force marches. [It's not just the "also" that is the culprit, but in on the crime as well are the introductory sentence (which deals only with the Allied side and ends with a colon, thus referencing the following bullet points), and the bullet points themselves.


Only the side conducting the forced march loses ("spends" might be a more accurate term) a morale point. The opposing side does not gain one.

HORST324 wrote:
What is the status of the Roads crossing the Minor Rivers? We're assuming they are not technically Bridges or Fords, so when Downpour occurs and these same Minor Rivers becomes Major Rivers, are these crossings washed away (i.e., units may not cross the Minor Rivers at all during a Downpour)?


All river crossings on the map should have been marked with either a bridge or ford symbol. If they aren't (I don't have a copy of the game to verify this) then they should be. In most cases, if there's a road going across the river it's safe to assume there *SHOULD* be a bridge there. Even during a Downpour, these bridges are assumed to remain intact and units may still cross the now swollen minor (i.e. treat as major) river at the bridge.

[As an aside, I should note that this only applies to these four games in the 'Fading Glory' pack, there are other games in the "Napoleonic 20" series where bridges can be swept away or become submerged and unuseable.]

Lance McMillan
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Thanks Lance!
The Waterloo map has no Bridge or Ford icons on the Minor River crossings - just a Road passing over them. We'll treat them as Bridges unless otherwise notified by GMT.
Great game and I like the new cards, Leader rules, Cavalry Control chart and color-coded Rout markers.

Hermann
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Lance McMillan
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Hermann, a quick check of the VPG 'Waterloo 20' 2nd edition map shows that it too doesn't show bridges over the minor rivers where they're crossed by roads. Apparently GMT just copied the VPG version of the map. That should probably be corrected, just to clarify things. I'll have to see about getting the VPG master file updated to reflect those crossings as bridged.

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Man or Astroman wrote:
Also, are we going to see some Civil War 20 games anytime soon?


I know there has been one in the works for years, but I'm not involved with that project and so can't say where things stand on it. It did come up, briefly, at the recent VPG semi-annual planning meeting, but only as a "we should nudge the designer and get things moving" comment.
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Lance McMillan
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Man or Astroman wrote:
...an enemy's unit is broken: I gain a moral point and the opponent loses one? That's the +1 and -1 on the moral chart right?


Correct. However, a word of caution -- the effects of Rout and Breaking are not cumulative. In other words, if you rout an enemy unit for a distance greater than its movement allowance, the owner loses -1 morale; if that same unit subsequently breaks during the course of that rout (either due to a failed hazardous retreat check, or retreating off the map) the victor would still gain the +1 morale for breaking the unit but the owner of the broken unit would not then lose a second morale point (i.e. he loses just one, total, for both the rout and subsequent breaking).

Hope that clears up any confusion/ambiguity.

Lance McMillan
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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I don't think an ACW 20 project per se is in the works, but I thought that Rob Markham was working on something along the same lines and scale. Then again, you can always just get ready for Hammerin' Sickles!
Hermann
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Alan Emrich
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I plan to completely restart the ACW 20 series afresh in 2013, with any luck.

Alan Emrich
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Steve Carey
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LordYupa wrote:
Steve Carey wrote:

[misprint] The Wellington and Blucher Leader counters have their reverse side color schemes switched (this only applies when using both the Optional Fog of War: Hidden Units [16.1] and Leaders [16.9] rules).


awaiting my copy...

what is the estimated percentage that is lost in gameplay with this errata?



Hi Ivano, if using the two Optional Rules (Fog of War/Hidden Units plus Leaders) then players will want to use a substitute counter from the mix (blank or otherwise, with the British and Prussian flag displayed on the back side). When revealed, then the Leader counter provided is used.

The misprint shouldn't deter any play at all, but it is a slight annoyance I concur.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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I find the leaders themselves don't mix well with fog of war anyway, since they are usually stacked with something (this giving away their position).
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Lance McMillan
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sdiberar wrote:
I find the leaders themselves don't mix well with fog of war anyway...


Yes, several players have commented that they prefer not to use the Leader or Fatigue rules -- that's why we kept them (as well as the Fog-of-War rules) as optional.
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