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Subject: Could this be what we've all been waiting for? rss

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The built-in obsolescence is already palpable.
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Alex Milner
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So if it's running Windows then Vassal would work. I wonder how much work it would be to include touchscreen interactivity with Vassal?
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Nay, nay and thrice nay.

Give me cardboard, or give me death.
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Michael Dorosh
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usrlocal wrote:
"At first glance, it looks like a regular all-in-one machine in the vein of the iMac: It's a 27-inch screen with the innards of a Windows 8 computer built into it, and it can stand up on a table.

But you can pick it up off the table, unhook the power cord and lay it flat for games of "Monopoly." It's big enough to fit four people around it, and the screen can respond to ten fingers touching it at the same time."



http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/lenovo-release-gi...



So:

a) lots of dirty fingers can smear it all up at once
b) the cascade of entitlement and people clamouring for 10 and 1 dollar board wargame downloads can begin in earnest

I have a hard time seeing this technology as being very positive. The explosion of hand-held devices is still making itself felt on the video wargaming world, and I honestly don't think they have been positive influences. Lots more games, but infinitely more crap in a much more crowded market. But also, the destruction of the publishing business, no serious reviewers out there - it seems like a hugely splintered mess.

Offering up board games via electronic means may seem like convenience but I wonder why anyone would want to mess with a industry that has actually started to pick up in recent years despite ugly rumours about its death.
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David Janik-Jones
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Hardly. The reported weight is 15 pounds.

Sorry, just read the Lenovo press info.

First, let me stop laughing. There, now ...

17 pounds.

2 hour battery life.

Much more than 1" thick.

Uh ... no.



My wife can move our 40" TV easier.
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It would be awesome if someone invented a wargame construction kit. Something that would allow you to program pretty much any hex and counter game. Then you could throw in hidden movement and random set up and all sorts of neat things. Complicated calculations could be handled easily. That would be amazing.

I like paper and counters, but the customizability would really sell it.
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michael connor
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Oh boy! cats are going to love this, especially if it's touch screen.
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Easy on the optimism there Dorosh laddy.
There are lot more physical games being made as well not just software.
No shortage of crap in the physical world either.

Who is to say that "serious" reviewers even by your august standards would not evolve if devices similar in concept evolved. Not that the lack of these would inhibit the market by any means, nor make the market 'worthless' as you imply.

Decrying their advent wont stop it. Positively influencing the process is however a worthwhile objective.

Many said VASSAL would never catch on, it did. Indeed if this 'tablet/surface' device was full windows 8 and not RT based it would be an interesting device to play on with Vassal, or derivative programs that many could play at or true board games that come with a d.load and physical chits and components that are recognized by the surface device.

There are many things that might evolve. Let the sky fall tomorrow.
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Lance McMillan
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usrlocal wrote:
Could this be what we've all been waiting for?


No.

Next question, please.



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Tom Willcockson
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I dont want to stare at another frigging computer screen, even one that lies flat on the table and can display hundreds of boardgames. I want boxes and boxes to take up lots of shelf space that I can look up and lovingly admire and take one down and listen to the box fart as I lift off the lid then carefully unpack and touch all the components and the board and the counters. I want to move around stacks of counters and dump one over now and then and know that it is all real. I want to admire all the clever little tricks and mechanisms that the designer has come up with to simulate fog of war in a game where all the physical components are laid out right in front of you. I want to hear the crash of the dice as I throw them down on the felt green surface of my reality based non-virtual wooden dice tray.
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TomW731 wrote:
I dont want to stare at another frigging computer screen, even one that lies flat on the table and can display hundreds of boardgames. I want boxes and boxes to take up lots of shelf space that I can look up and lovingly admire and take one down and listen to the box fart as I lift off the lid then carefully unpack and touch all the components and the board and the counters. I want to move around stacks of counters and dump one over now and then and know that it is all real. I want to admire all the clever little tricks and mechanisms that the designer has come up with to simulate fog of war in a game where all the physical components are laid out right in front of you. I want to hear the crash of the dice as I throw them down on the felt green surface of my reality based non-virtual wooden dice tray.


I was surprised to see this on the Matrix site today:

http://matrixgames.com/products/424/details/Conflict.of.Hero...!



I'd be curious to know how well it is doing compared to the manual version (which got a lot of positive comment with regards to the physical components).
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Tom Willcockson
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Not sure what makes it all that different from a bunch of other computer WWII tactical simulations I've seen over the years. My suspicion is that computer based strategy games will inevitably become more like all the other arcade style games as the computer takes over the tough rule functions for the player and provides fancy graphics so he doesn't have to tax his imagination too much. Part of what I find enjoyable about boardgames (besides having real components and not having to stare at yet another screen after working on one all day) is how well the designer can create the software that drives his little world of cardboard, software that we have to memorize and understand to make the game run properly. Somewhere in that process I come to a deeper understanding of what is being portrayed. I'm not fooling myself that we will be lucky if this hangs on as a niche inside a niche, but I do hope there will always be enough of us around to keep it alive amidst all the flickering computer screens.
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usrlocal wrote:

But you can pick it up off the table, unhook the power cord and lay it flat for games of "Monopoly."

Monopoly perhaps, but I don't want to play even a mid-sized wargame with normal Windows resolution spread over a table that size. People look at size but tend to forget about the DPI's. You'll need the 50 megapixel graphics card to go with it.
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Nigel Wright
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Did it say what rez the display is?
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Shauneroo wrote:


Nay, nay and thrice nay.

Give me cardboard, or give me death.


Same here. Paper map, cardboard counters and a buddy opening a bottle of cold beer while you are moving stacks of counters using tweezers.



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Jim F
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Shauneroo wrote:


Nay, nay and thrice nay.

Give me cardboard, or give me death.


It looks like old Frankie is getting something stiffer than cardboard whistle
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Alex Milner wrote:
So if it's running Windows then Vassal would work. I wonder how much work it would be to include touchscreen interactivity with Vassal?


I just got a Windows 8 laptop and Vassal seems to hate it. Vassal will open but then it crashes when I try to open a module.
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Joe Thompson
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My cardboard will still be working in 5 years.
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alcazar wrote:
Did it say what rez the display is?


All I could find was a reference to it being 1920x1080, which is terrible for something like this.
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Isaac Citrom
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Well, I'll play devil's advocate. Sign me up for three.

This is one of the first iterations. They will only get larger and cheaper.

As for finger prints and smudges, there are already types of screen treatmenst to mitigate that.

What really has my panties in a bunch is, finally, real fog of war, with real hidden units, no God's eye complete knowledge of everyhing; espionage/intelligence.

Enhanced reality, for animated 3D elements with contextual information.

Roll-up screens, with pack and go game states.

If gameplay really is the holy grail that I am so often reminded of, then it should matter a whole lot less that the gaming elements are not cardboard.

I would highlight that a lone person staring at a single upright monitor is not a fair comparison to this tabletop, gaming group, shared resource.

I think there is some kind of prejudice at work here. If this were 30 years hence and this will have become the standard boardgame interface, I don't think most people would be running after their cardboard counterparts, any more than wargamers run after Tactics II for its contemporary innovative design.
.
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isaacc wrote:

Well, I'll play devil's advocate. Sign me up for three.

This is one of the first iterations. They will only get larger and cheaper.

As for finger prints and smudges, there are already types of screen treatmenst to mitigate that.

What really has my panties in a bunch is, finally, real fog of war, with real hidden units, no God's eye complete knowledge of everyhing; espionage/intelligence.

Enhanced reality, for animated 3D elements with contextual information.

Roll-up screens, with pack and go game states.

If gameplay really is the holy grail that I am so often reminded of, then it should matter a whole lot less that the gaming elements are not cardboard.

I would highlight that a lone person staring at a single upright monitor is not a fair comparison to this tabletop, gaming group, shared resource.

I think there is some kind of prejudice at work here. If this were 30 years hence and this will have become the standard boardgame interface, I don't think most people would be running after their cardboard counterparts, any more than wargamers run after Tactics II for its contemporary innovative design.
.


With the advent of NFC (Near Field Communications), you could have intelligent counters...... Each counter or perhaps each HQ or General with a NFC sticker on it....hmm endless possibilities for it to interact with the board, Conduct recon, order supplies, request input from the user.
But until then I will happily play with my cardboard. VASSAL is good for somethings and for certain types of games. Not so much for others.
Like much of the industry I am excited about the innovations that have come and will come along.
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isaacc wrote:

I think there is some kind of prejudice at work here. If this were 30 years hence and this will have become the standard boardgame interface, I don't think most people would be running after their cardboard counterparts, any more than wargamers run after Tactics II for its contemporary innovative design.
.


I see just as many people scoffing at elements of "contemporary innovative design" on a regular basis, deservedly so, when it is clearly about form over substance. Those NATO symbols on the Tactics II counters still work fine.

And come to think of it, I never had a problem with screen glare.

People are so convinced they need "toys", now they need more "toys" to enjoy the "toys" they already have. It's not enough to have a pick-up truck, you have to also have an automatic starter and heated seats, or they somehow can't enjoy the truck.

So now it isn't enough to have a boardgame, but you must have one that thinks out the rules for you, and puts away all the counters at the end of the day?

I'm with whoever said they like having those cruddy boxes taking up all that shelf space. Some of mine are even split open, and spill out their contents onto the floor when I try and move them.

There was a fear 20 years ago or so that PCs would kill board wargaming, and that clearly hasn't happened, so I doubt that this will do anything like that. The only real danger is that you make some kinds of games inaccessible by making it available only via proprietary or expensive routes.
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alcazar wrote:
Did it say what rez the display is?

You can follow the link, you know.
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One day soon the interface will be either digitized paper or an interactive projection using LED tech.

Portable Device gaming is for the masses, and for them it is simple catapult games, maze games or simple shooter starring Angry Turds or something like that.

As far as I am concerned, they may supplement my games but they cannot replace them at this time.

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Rockhopper01 wrote:
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I see you are a Lord of the Rings Online fan. Why did you choose that over MERP?


You're assuming a lot. You're also grandstanding.
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