Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Panzer Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: Indirect fire at unspotted units in town hexes question. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Theodore Balas

Kallithea
Athens
msg tools
Our Tiger! She drinks fuel like it's beer!
badge
Ha! They're scratching your paint job Helmut!
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
What happens if you have both spotted and unspotted units in a town hex which is under indirect fire?
Do you target every unit or only the spotted ones?

(Note: the situation above occurs when a friendly unit has LOS -but is not adjacement- to the town hex and enemy units open fire from that hex)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why IF applies to all units:
I) rule VII.C.4.: "In regards to woods and town hexes, a friendly unit must be adjacement to those hexes, or an enemy must have fired from those hexes, for IF attacks to be designeted against them (see section L. SPOTTING)."
II) rule VII.C.9.: "I.F. attacks must be directed towards all of the units in a target hex"

Bottom line:
Since the town hex becomes targetable, after a unit becomes spotted and I.F. targets hexes, every unit in it will be targeted.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Why I.F. applies to spotted units:
I) rule VII.L.1.: "When a defending enemy unit is in a woods or town hex, it may be not be fired upon by friendly units which are not directly adjacement unless it has been 'spotted' by at least one firendly unit"
II) rule VII.L.1.b.* states that only the unit that fired becomes spotted, not the entire stack (please look at the next post as well).

Bottom line:
Since only spotted units in town hexes can be fired upon, every unspotted unit cannot be targeted.
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Theodore Balas

Kallithea
Athens
msg tools
Our Tiger! She drinks fuel like it's beer!
badge
Ha! They're scratching your paint job Helmut!
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
* Rule VII.L.1.b:
- Defending units are spotted if:
"b. The defending unit that has fired (used its AS in a non-CAT attack) while in LOS of a friendly undispersed unit during the previous player segment and that friendly unit can still trace an unobstructed LOS to the target.
Place a 'Spotted' marker on those enemy units that fire while in the LOS of friendly undispersed units as such firing occurs (NOTE: friendly units that are dispersed by such fire cannot be used to fulfill the requirement).
The markers remain until the enemy units are no longer in friendly LOS, or ALL friendly spotting units are subsequently dispersed, or the firing unit moves out of its initial firing hex into an unspotted town or woods hex."

The word hex (always in my point of view) is written not because a single unit that has fired from a town hex (with a stack on it) renders every unit spotted.
It is written because a unit adjacement to a town hex spots every unit.
Thus a hex may be considered spotted because every unit that gets in it is automatically spotted.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Kundlak
Slovakia
Bratislava
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From the Panzer Leader Clarifications and Questions Box (Alan Arvold):

"Q: If several units are stacked in the same woods or town hex, and one of them fires, are all of the units on that hex spotted by any unit with a clear LOS?

A: No. In the case of the woods hex only the firing unit is spotted and may be fired on. But in the case of town hexes Direct Fire attacks must be made against all spotted units in the hex with one combined defense factor, with any unspotted units in the town hex being ignored in that attack. In the case of Indirect Fire attacks, all units are vulnerable to attack even if only one unit is spotted. (This was a change from an earlier Question Box ruling which stated that all spotted and unspotted defending units in a town hex must be attacked in one combined defense strength in Direct Fire.)"

So in this case Indirect Fire applies to all units in the hex.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Theodore Balas

Kallithea
Athens
msg tools
Our Tiger! She drinks fuel like it's beer!
badge
Ha! They're scratching your paint job Helmut!
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Joeyeti wrote:
From the Panzer Leader Clarifications and Questions Box (Alan Arvold):

"Q: If several units are stacked in the same woods or town hex, and one of them fires, are all of the units on that hex spotted by any unit with a clear LOS?

A: No. In the case of the woods hex only the firing unit is spotted and may be fired on. But in the case of town hexes Direct Fire attacks must be made against all spotted units in the hex with one combined defense factor, with any unspotted units in the town hex being ignored in that attack. In the case of Indirect Fire attacks, all units are vulnerable to attack even if only one unit is spotted. (This was a change from an earlier Question Box ruling which stated that all spotted and unspotted defending units in a town hex must be attacked in one combined defense strength in Direct Fire.)"

So in this case Indirect Fire applies to all units in the hex.


Thanks alot

Are my eyes failing me?
Is this question answered in the Q&A Box uploaded here, or do you have an updated version of this?
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/41169/error/expired/panzer...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Theodore Balas

Kallithea
Athens
msg tools
Our Tiger! She drinks fuel like it's beer!
badge
Ha! They're scratching your paint job Helmut!
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Nulli Secundus wrote:
Are my eyes failing me?
Is this question answered in the Q&A Box uploaded here, or do you have an updated version of this?
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/41169/error/expired/panzer...


Apparently it's in the Spotting section, not in the Indirect Fire one blush

When I read it, my brain refused to read the words Indirect Fire; need some sleep laugh

Thanks again!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Kundlak
Slovakia
Bratislava
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep, took a second for my brain to revert me to the Spotting section

And you helped me add a small clarification to my rules rewrite!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddy del Rio
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
See my contribution to the discussion on the Direct Fire version of this thread:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11093618#11093618
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.