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Subject: Ending battles sooner variant: Surrender rss

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Chris Wood
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Darien
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This has happened frequently in this game, but the last game was the final straw. My son had pimped out his galleon, and went after a man-o-war. Halfway through the battle it was obvious he was losing badly, but we had to continue the battle until it was over. 5 minutes of agony later, I finally rolled the death blow, but only after very slowly destroying his ship, piece by piece. After that, the whole game was ruined, he was pissed off, and no one wanted to really play anymore.

So how about this variant to avoid this: Surrendering
At any time during any battle, player or NPC, a captain can end the battle and lose by surrendering; particularly if there is really no hope of winning. For a player vs player, the winner can either choose to have the captain walk the plank and die as usual, or can spare him and keep his captain, but the captain starts the game back in his home port with a basic ship. His stash remains. All other instances the captains die as usual. This would be super easy to employ and would avoid scenes like above. Thoughts?
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Master of the Waz
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St. Peters
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I could see surrendering vs an NPC if you know you can't win just to get on but, vs a player I think I would not. I want as many hits as I can get in on his ship. Weaken him for someone else to sink, make him drop cargo, make him pay to repair, just do as much damage as I can as I go out. I don't want to make it easy for him.

Also, if you are not doing so well with the cannons, you could always board him and try to take out the crew.
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Scott M.
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why did your son not Flee?

ITs a slim chance but better than getting blown out of the water.

And in the end... A beefed up galleon is still inferior to a Man o War..

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Chris Wood
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he lost his masts pretty quickly just, some bad rolls. He tried around 15 times to flee buy couldnt
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Chris Wood
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I forgot to mention this; the loser can surrender, but the winner has the option to accept the surrender or keep fighting.
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Chris Wood
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Jastin wrote:
I could see surrendering vs an NPC if you know you can't win just to get on but, vs a player I think I would not. I want as many hits as I can get in on his ship. Weaken him for someone else to sink, make him drop cargo, make him pay to repair, just do as much damage as I can as I go out. I don't want to make it easy for him.

Also, if you are not doing so well with the cannons, you could always board him and try to take out the crew.


If you don't have a good seamanship that is very had to do
 
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Jim O'Neill (Established 1949)
Scotland
Motherwell
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Myoman wrote:
I forgot to mention this; the loser can surrender, but the winner has the option to accept the surrender or keep fighting.

Chris,

There is no reason why this can't be done with the agreement of other players especially if it means avoiding someone getting totally pissed off with what is an excellent game. Just make it so the surrender has to be accepted.

I would have no hesitation in doing this and have house-ruled a few other games to keep my two children involved. otherwise I would have lost two wee boardgaming companions.

Regards,


Jim

Est. 1949

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Brent Wilson
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Myoman wrote:
he lost his masts pretty quickly just, some bad rolls. He tried around 15 times to flee buy couldnt


If you lose your masts, the only allowed choice is "shoot". It sounds like he had 15 rolls which would have done, on average, something like 5 damage to the Man-o-war. I bet he would have finished a lot happier if he had managed to knock out it's hull.
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Chris Wood
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I believe it was the case of the npc being 1 point higher in the seamanship.He got some good shots initially, but there was just too much man in that man o war :)

He tried to flee then lost all or his masts, and then it was a matter of me not damaging his ship very quickly. My cannons were damaged, his cannons were more damaged, so i just chipped away while he he couldt do too much. But like i said, this is the worst example out of many instances. The prolonged fight drags the game down when they are a foregone conclusion
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Brent Wilson
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I see what you mean.

And I agree that if a player has lost the will to live, I don't see any reason to stop them from jumping overboard.

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Carsten Jorgensen
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Personally I would keep fighting until I also lost the last cannon. Then vs. an NPC there is no point in any more rounds of battle with my mast also destroyed. Though not really a surrender then, and I see your point when playing with kids. For PvP it is more complicated, as someone else mentioned.

Maybe a surrender could work like this:

Conditions: You must have a destroyed location. Could just be all since your ship might then start taking hits to its hull. Or you could make it a combat related one - masts, crew or cannons.

And your opponent must accept.


To make it thematic there could be different outcomes wheather you are surrendering to a pirate, Naval ship or a player.

If to a pirate NPC: You get plundered and they take you gold, cargo and special weapons. You keep your captain, ship and all cards. Still with a destoyed location and no gold, you are in a pretty bad situation, unless near you stash or a free repair port (you might get gold from rumors or a mission).

If to a Naval ship: Since you must be a pirate to fight them (or at war), you are taken to prison (in that admirals homeport). So you lose your ship, gold and cargo, but keep all your cards. Though you spend your next turn breaking out of prison and taking over a new small ship (perhaps with two random cargo cards to get you started again - you essentially challenged the old captain for leadership and won).

Actually you could just use the last one for a pirate NPC too. There you are just held for ransom, but escapes ect.

It could even work for PvP too. You start in their homeport (either in prison or held for ransom) and follow the same procedure as "If to a Naval ship". The winner can of course keep your ship instead of his own like in a normal takeover. If he wants too, but most likely not, as it will have a destroyed location. He still gets a reward for any bounties, but doesn't get any rumor or glory cards the loser had (as he keeps these here too - along with any mission). The winner does however avoid taking further hits to his ship.

I think there must be some kind of bonus in a surrender for both parties, but still with a penalty for the loser (besides losing gold, cargo and special weapons - he might not have had any to begin with). You would of course keep all bounties (even if the winner got paid), so you might not be able to take a port action in that port. Perhaps you should actually start in the sea zone instead, since you are escaping .

All this does devaluate one glory card a bit (Survivor I think it is) where your captain survives against all odds. But clearly worth it to keep the kids playing . It is only one card and it still has its uses - your opponent might not accept your surrender.

As a final thing there should perhaps be a fixed condition for when an NPC will accept a surrender (since they get nothing out of it, there would be no real point in accepting it - other than to be nice). And it could simply be the same as for allowing them to flee - the player must have either more crew or cannons.
Though this would not have helped in the case the OP mentioned, so perhaps NPC's should simply accepts a surrender always? The condition about a destroyed location would still have to be fulfilled. Or actually that might not be needed now - when I came up with it, I was thinking you should be able to keep your ship and stay in the sea zone where the battle was. And so there needed to be a "penalty" for surrendering.

It is rather late here actually, so I better stop. Take from it what you can use (if any ).

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Grayson G
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After playing a couple of games we added a surrender rule. Basically we count the captain as +1 to the crew in crew combat/battles so if all ye crew dies your captain fights on like a real captain! --- So you can choose to surrender after a round of fighting or when all your crew dies next round your captain can choose to continue fighting or surrender, if he chooses to surrender and has no bounties from that nation then he pays a fee of 10gold(from your stash) or 1 glory point and starts in a port from the nation he fought and follows the rules about dying. if he has 1 or 2 bounties from that nation he must role a successful influence role and pay the fee(s). if he has 3 or more bounties he must role 2 successes on his influence role(for 2 bounties add 2gold to fee, 3 3gold, and so on from your stash). If unsuccessful your captain walks the plank, gets hung, or fed to the sharkies if fighting another player he gets to choose to accept the surrender or not, if he allows it you pay 10gold(from stash) and follow the rules of dying.
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