Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Star Wars: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: My non-gamer wife is willing to play SW:LCG with me rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
flag msg tools
designer
Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hurray!!!!
BUT... she is a non gamer, and she will play the game ONLY because of the theme (which she loves).
So, here are my questions:
1- how can I teach her the game in the simplest way possible?
2- what faction should I and her use, for her first game (bear in mind: SHE WILL HAVE TO WIN her first game... she is very competitive against me, so if she wins against me, she will want to play me again)
3- is the game too hard to master for a non-gamer, in the first play? She promised me she would play at least 2 games, since she knows the first is always the one where she grasps the rules, and the second where she actually plays the game. Are two games a good number to actually learn the game rules? I am not concerned about strategies, at the moment.. those will come later on.

thanks
Mike
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rayne Smith
United States
Beaverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1- Unfortunately, some aspects of this game are a bit difficult to teach. For the combat, I normally find it easiest to set up a quick demo scenario and step through the edge battle and explain how striking works. Make sure you have all three icons and some white icons as well! I find the rest of the game pretty simple to teach, some people have issues with the concept of force struggles as well though.

I think that's the best I can do since the question is a bit vague, if you want to know some specifics on how to teach certain aspects then feel free to ask.

2- My recommendation is give her the faction with her favorite characters. The only thing I would caution you with this suggestion is that in my experience Jedi require a bit more understanding to really do well with. I would recommend Rebel Assault or Sith since they are the easiest games with the most recognizable characters. If you really want her to win, it isn't just about the deck she plays, you will need to go easy on her, and will need to let her win.

3-I think you might have worded that first sentence badly. This game is definitely too hard for a non-gamer or even a hardcore gamer to master on the first play. If you're talking about just learning the rules on the first play, I think it is much more doable. Two games should be plenty of time to actually learn most of the rules for the game. I would not show her the gameplay flowchart though. It scares a lot of people away. I would only reference it if absolutely necessary.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Per Starb├Ąck
Sweden
Uppsala
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ikim wrote:

2- what faction should I and her use, for her first game


I'd say she should choose the one of the four starting decks that contains those characters she most fancies playing. Since she is willing to play the game only because she loves the theme I think that's much more important than other differences between the decks. (I played my first game against a nephew of mine, and I knew he would like the deck with Vader, so that's what we did.)

Then probably you should play Jedi or Sith (because of more main characters than the alternative.)

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
flag msg tools
designer
Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Jeremy, you answered all my questions... now I am even more scared she will run away from the game, and never come back.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenneth Chan
United States
Conway
SC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I usually teach the game letting new players play the dark side. This removes one critical decision making aspect of the game (attacking objectives) as they truly only need to play defensive. This also allows them to grasp this concept better by seeing how you play the light side and the tactics you employ when attacking objectives.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rayne Smith
United States
Beaverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't worry about it too much, with a game like this the theme can carry it pretty far. I don't really know your wife so I can't make an guaruntees, but if you can teach her the combat system then the rest isn't too complicated. I do wish you the best of luck, tell us how it goes!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This game is complex with lots of interwoven things and tons of different uses per card.

My wife IS a hardcore gamer and it took a full three games of "What the heck happens now" to really start 'playing'.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
Canada
Gatineau
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
Do you want it sugar coated or right between the eyes?

I'll assume you want it sugar coated:

"Perhaps try playing something a little easier then this game to start..."

If you want it right between the eyes, scroll down:

































"She will never, ever, be able to play this game."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drew Dallas
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Have her watch the video tutorial too
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Eding
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't want to say she shouldn't try, but I personally don't think I could get my wife (who does play games with friends on occasion) to play this one.

Granted, after a few plays of the game, i do think anybody should be able to play it. The test is how steep the learning curve is. I personally think that this game is harder to learn than Android: Netrunner. Sure, A:N is easy to learn from a friend who is teaching you, but this game has a lot of intricacies and some fiddly rules (which I LOVE, don't get me wrong) that take several plays to make sense.

Start with Win conditions and then a light overview of each of the 6 phases. Use the Back 2 pages of the rulebook during play to get your timing down right, and don't play REALLY aggressive as the light side. I find aggressive Light side tends to win against passive dark side fairly easily. (in my 10 or so plays)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Eding
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Please keep us posted on how this goes. I want to know if there's hope for my wife
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dicky P
United Kingdom
West
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would share the comment above about the new player being the DS rather than LS (possibly Sith v Jedi). This seems to have given us the higher win rate for the DS initially, and DS is slightly more "passive" for a new player.

One additional thought, and I have NOT tested this out, but I did wonder whether to play a few simplified introductory games which ignores the battle for the Force Phase (phase 6).

Whilst the Force concept is quite simple in isolation, it seems to expotentially create more confusion for newbies, when they have already had to take in so many icon's and interactions. For non-gamers especially the call often goes up that "I don't know what I am doing [for the best]".

What I haven't thought about in more detail is how to then deal with the balance of force token. To be honest do whatever you want as if these are introductory games you never play those again. You could try

1. If you want more certainty over a DS win, the token is always DS
2. Alternate between DS and LS on some basis
3. Randomise selection

Gut feel is that you probably only need a few games before moving on the "full" rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Vore
United States
Lebanon
Oregon
flag msg tools
Send me a trade offer!
badge
I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I dont see why she can't. patience on your part, take your time and she will get it. non gamer or not there is no rule that says "you have to be a gamer to play and understand this game."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chang1701 wrote:
I dont see why she can't. patience on your part, take your time and she will get it. non gamer or not there is no rule that says "you have to be a gamer to play and understand this game."


Now try teaching it to a non-gamer.

Saying it is easy is as easy as saying it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thanee
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ikim wrote:
1- how can I teach her the game in the simplest way possible?


Play with open hands for the first game.

Quote:
2- what faction should I and her use, for her first game


Let her choose both.

Bye
Thanee
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Garrett
United States
Laredo
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Her love for the theme will go a long way toward giving her the patience to give this game a shot. My wife is not a gamer and not a Star Wars fan. We played one game only because she knew I really wanted to. It ended with her looking utterly confused at what happened and she felt like it was a total waste of her time. At least in your case, she'll enjoy the cool artwork as you play.

If she's willing to spend half an hour watching a video, definitely do that. I've taught this game 4 times and the two people who watched the video first did much better than the two who didn't (my wife included in those who wouldn't watch the video).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Kimball
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanee wrote:

Play with open hands for the first game.


This. I've only tried teaching one non-gamer friend so far and this helped a lot. About halfway through our second game he said, "I think I'm starting to get it now, I see how this is pretty cool."

My usual strategy is give a brief overview of the different types of cards, brief overview of a battle, then jump in to a game. Most people learn better by messing up and asking questions than by listening to me drone on and on and on and on and on and on and on... snore

I would also second the FFG video teaching how to play. I don't know how good it is for a brand new gamer, but I know it helped me pick up a few things I missed in the rulebook.

Now we'll see how all this actually works when I convince my girlfriend to try and learn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Linnell
United States
Bedford
NH
flag msg tools
I really need a new badge, avatar, and overtext. GM me with any ideas....
badge
This is the seahorse valley
Avatar
mb
Budgernaut wrote:
Her love for the theme will go a long way toward giving her the patience to give this game a shot. My wife is not a gamer and not a Star Wars fan. We played one game only because she knew I really wanted to. It ended with her looking utterly confused at what happened and she felt like it was a total waste of her time. At least in your case, she'll enjoy the cool artwork as you play.

If she's willing to spend half an hour watching a video, definitely do that. I've taught this game 4 times and the two people who watched the video first did much better than the two who didn't (my wife included in those who wouldn't watch the video).


Ha! Which is better, your wife's response or mine. Yours thinks its a waste of time. Mine fell asleep - constantly.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
flag msg tools
designer
Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
solidhavok wrote:
Budgernaut wrote:
Her love for the theme will go a long way toward giving her the patience to give this game a shot. My wife is not a gamer and not a Star Wars fan. We played one game only because she knew I really wanted to. It ended with her looking utterly confused at what happened and she felt like it was a total waste of her time. At least in your case, she'll enjoy the cool artwork as you play.

If she's willing to spend half an hour watching a video, definitely do that. I've taught this game 4 times and the two people who watched the video first did much better than the two who didn't (my wife included in those who wouldn't watch the video).


Ha! Which is better, your wife's response or mine. Yours thinks its a waste of time. Mine fell asleep - constantly.


I am waiting for the game to arrive any day now. As soon as I will have put my wife to the test, I will let you guys know.
I won't even try to make her watch a tutorial video... THAT would make her fall asleep for sure.

I think I will follow your suggestions, and play the first game with open hands, to teach her the basics.
What I am sure might turn her away are:
1) the multiple use of cards
2) the card text

these two things combined will make her head burn (especially reading the cards, which will annoy her, and, after having spent time reading the first 10 cards, she will drop out).

Now that I think about it, I can do the following:
1- play the first game (or a couple of turns), with open hands, avoiding card text and special abilities, so she can focus on the game mechanics alone (not fizzling with all the intricancies of special abilities and rules exceptions that cards bring)
2- play another game, with closed hands, to see if she grasped the rules alone
3- add card text

lets see and hope!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael D. Kelley
United States
Silver Spring
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You could even try custom-building a couple of small decks (I'd recommend imperial navy versus rebel alliance) with only units, leaving out all of the events and attachments. Have her ignore all of the text on the units.

Then, she can get some nice practice with using resources to deploy units, and with the edge battle and fighting.

I think once she has that concept down, it will be a lot less intimidating to add in special actions and card text.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Derbyshire
United Kingdom
Norton Mandeville
Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My wife (gamer but never played any LCG) is also up for playing this with me. Normally she won't play anything with conflict but because of her love of the Star Wars theme, she's willing.

I've had the game for a des weeks and still not tabled it yet because I'm making sure I completely and fully understand it and all its nuances myself. I know that if I have to make even one rules check that slows things down, I will have failed, she will get bored and pusses off and we'll never play it again.

I recommend doing the same.

And then playing the first few rounds fully open and explaining the options available and reasoning.

Good luck!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Tulsa
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If she has an hour, watching the FFG tutorial followed by the Team Covenant tutorial really spells things out well.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Eding
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Azgard12 wrote:
If she has an hour, watching the FFG tutorial followed by the Team Covenant tutorial really spells things out well.


I think the TC vid really helps after you've tried a game with a willing friend. I thought I knew how it worked, played, failed, and then it all made sense after the TC vid.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
flag msg tools
designer
Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, my wife and I played her first game if SW:LCG yesterday.
I was using the Sith deck, and she was using the Rebel Alliance.

Getting her to understand the phases and all the rules was complicated, so I decided to avoid using the card text and events, but concentrate on the game mechanics alone.

"but the card text is the fun part", she said, "I want to use card text...",
"OK", I replied, "lets use card text, "but bear in mind that card text over rules the basic rules, so you might get confused if you don't know the basic rules, yet"
"I don't care, I just want to crush you"
"fine", I said, humbly, knowing I was going to let her win nonetheless.

So, we get on playing, playing open hands, talking about what is best doing every phase.

During my turns, she kept on asking: "when do I draw?... why do you get to have all those cards, and I only have one or two... this game is broken!"
"No, it's not broken, it's just that you should know when to play cards and when to keep them in your hand, knowing you will only draw on YOUR turn"
"this game is stupid!", she said...
"No, it's not stupid, it's strategical. You have to plan ahead".

We played another couple of turns, and everytime she was hitting one of my objectives, she got more and more exalted.
Then she played Trench Run and, after three turns, my Death Star was destroyed.

It was AWSOME!!!

We talked about it after the game was over, and she said: "it's like the movie: I got the Death Star plans, and sent Luke to destroy you!!". You must feel very sorry, now, because I crushed you!!!".

The end game was very cinematic.

The game is awesome!!

Anyhow, I don't know if and when I will be able to play SW with my wife, but it was a fun moment.
She wanted to watch the movie, right afterwards!

Again: AWSOME!!!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Derbyshire
United Kingdom
Norton Mandeville
Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Funnily enough my wife and I played our first game yesterday and it too was a success! High five!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.