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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Variants

Subject: One vs Many rss

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Shane Ivins
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Let me start by saying that I haven't tested this at all yet, so I have no idea if it's balanced. It's just an idea I had, the numbers might need tweaking.

My idea is a bit like the "Archenemy" rules for MTG. One corp, multiple runners. Would probably start with 3 runners as a testing point, then try going up and down from there.

Quote:
The biggest change from the main game is to the corp's deck. Multiply every number involved in deckbuilding by the number of players. So this will generally mean that for a 3-runner game, the corp will have:

A 135-147 card deck with 60-63 agenda points
No more than 9 copies of a single card in their deck.

They can make it bigger, but will need to add more agendas if they do. Obviously multiple base sets will be needed, but if each player has a base set (and don't mind loaning cards) this shouldn't be a problem. If you already have a corp deck you like, the easiest way to build this deck is to build that deck once for each runner, then mix all of those decks together.

The corp takes the first turn, as usual, then Runner A, then the corp again, then Runner B, etc. So the corp still gets a turn every-other turn.

Finally, the corp must either score agenda points equal to 7 times the number of runners (so 21 agenda points total for a 3-runner game) or eliminate all the runners via damage. When a runner is eliminated via damage, the turn rotation continues as if that runner was never there (so the corp doesn't get two turns in a row just because a runner is dead).

Agenda points are not shared between runners; this game is not completely co-op! The first runner to 7 points wins. If the corp runs out of cards in R&D and can't draw, the runner with the most agenda points wins. If there is a tie for most agenda points, those players share a victory.


My biggest worry with these rules is that the corp will be able to build up too quickly. The 21-to-win rule helps with this somewhat, but I don't know if it's enough. Then again, the corp will also have more places to defend, if the runners are varied enough; one might have a deck focused on running on R&D, while another uses Sneakdoor Beta to run Archives; with all these different strategies hitting the corp at once, he/she will need to defend all of his/her central servers, not to mention remote servers.

What do you guys think?
 
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Zetan wrote:
Let me start by saying that I haven't tested this at all yet, so I have no idea if it's balanced


Says it all.

Also, using the {c}{/c} tags causes the post to not wordwrap making the format difficult to read.

-=-=-

Unless you're the Corp, you are getting 1/2n'th of the game play (where n is the number of Runners), because the other Runners have to take their turns too. That means you take 1/6 of the turns in a 4 player game.

A deck of x3 size can create massive streakiness in the Corp Deck. I cannot imagine how unfun it would be to slog through 100 cards to get to the first Agenda card.

Each individual Runner is having to face off against 3 Corp turns, and ICE (once rezzed) stays in place, so the Corp would be behooved to play extremely heavy on the ICE and Economy cards.
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Ian Toltz
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Why is that in a spoiler block?

Anyways, I don't think the economics of this work out well.

The corp taking every other turn means basically that the corp advances at a "normal" pace, while each runner advances at a pace inversely proportional to the number of players in the game.

Note that the most important part of the corp's deck, the ice, is a fixed cost that doesn't care how many times it's run against.

I actually think there may be merit to this idea, but counterintuitively I think the corp should have the same number of turns as each runner.

Not really sure how you'd best go about balancing the sides. I feel like the first place I'd try is reducing the cost of ice... Maybe give the corp a reduction in cost of ice by 1 or 2. I feel like you should probably boost the trace of all cards, as well.

A more elegant solution might be to just give the corp more credits per click. 2 credits for 1 click feels like it might be too much, and also has the drawback of making the economy cards less useful. I'm thinking that whenever the corp gains credits, they gain +50%, rounded down. They can also spend 2 clicks to gain 3 credits.

So that means beanstalk royalties would give 4 credits, or as weyland would give 6 credits (4 * 1.5), hedge fund would give 13 or 15 for weyland, Meylange would give 10, etc. For cards like Adonis campaign, the extra credits would come from the bank.

This will allow the corporation to build up more quickly, but not exponentially so, and will in turn require the runners to each put in more preparation per run.
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Anthony Giovannetti
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I have been thinking about this format.

I think you would be better off with regular decks and probably adding special archenemy style cards or powers to balance.
 
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David Boeren
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Whenever I see one of these I wonder - what was going to be so bad about trying it at least once before posting?
 
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I think every player needs an equal number of turns just from a boredom perspective.

I think it would work out better as some kind of "barbarians at the gates" scenario like some RTS games have. Where the solo player in the 1 vs many game has extra powers and strengths. That is, give the Corp bigger better abilities rather than more turns.
 
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KC Bagley
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I was considering coming up with this kind of play variant, but decided to wait until the Star Wars LCG gets the 4 player expansion from FFG to see how they handle it. Then see how it can be applied to A:NR, if it can be (completely different games).
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Reverend Redd
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We've tried this before. We had several community members working on ideas to get it balanced, and though we got pretty close, we couldn't really fine-tune its balance without overhauling enough of the game's mechanics to make it far less fun to play.

Of course, fresh minds with more playtesting time on their hands could be just what it needs, so don't let me discourage you too much.
 
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galathonredd wrote:
Of course, fresh minds with more playtesting time on their hands could be just what it needs, so don't let me discourage you too much.


This is the key.

Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.

Posting something without play testing it or doing some basic math analysis on it is a 1% solution.
 
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Yeh Fang
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galathonredd wrote:
We've tried this before. We had several community members working on ideas to get it balanced, and though we got pretty close, we couldn't really fine-tune its balance without overhauling enough of the game's mechanics to make it far less fun to play.

Of course, fresh minds with more playtesting time on their hands could be just what it needs, so don't let me discourage you too much.


I like this post from that thread:
reebomak wrote:
I think you're on to something.

Reinterpet the corp actions:
click:install or play cards up to number of runners.
click:gain credits equal to number of runners.
clickraw cards up to number of runners.
click, 2 credits:trash a resource of every tagged runner.
3 clicksurge all virus counters of all runners.

for any activated ability which costs an action, for each action spent, corp can choose to either draw cards or gain credits up to the number of runners, minus 1.


Basically basic actions need the numbers multiplied by # of runners. However, I think card effects that require a click I think should just have their effects applied to every runner (e.g. Private Security Force) or have the effect multiplied by # of runners (e.g. Melange, Executive Retreat, etc.). I also think the corp should start with Hand size and starting credits multiplied by number of runners. But beyond that, it should still be 7 vs 7 total agendas.

Also for advancing counters, they should be allowed to advance up to X number of cards per click, but they can't advance the same card more than once. Their auto draw every turn should also be X cards.
 
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Shane Ivins
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Wow, thanks for all the replies! Sorry about the "Code" text, which became "Spoiler" text, and really should've been "Quote" text (or nothing special at all.. just wanted to separate rules from discussion of rules somehow).

You're right that I'm diving in half-cocked, have only 1% of a solution, etc. Truth be told, I have a really hard time getting 4 people who are interested in testing variants in a room together at the same time. I wanted to get my ideas down while they were still fresh in my head. Sure, I could've put them into a text file, but I figured that if anyone could point out some obvious flaws before I actually get a chance to test, it might save me some testing. I also figured there might be some "somebody's already tried this" going on somewhere, and the pitfalls they encountered could also save testing time.

And lo and behold, you found a pretty obvious flaw; in a 4 person game, each runner only gets 1/6th of the turns, which could definitely lead to boredom.

Out of the solutions proposed, I don't think I like the one shared by SneakySly and DrTall, which is to give the corp "special powers." It would involve a lot of custom rules creation, and I tend to prefer simpler, elegant solutions when possible.

I do like Dracil's line of thought a lot. Multiply the corp's existing abilities by the number of runners. However, I'm not sure it should work for all abilities... drawing extra cards, for example, can be a pain. My corp deck likes to keep a slim hand, playing agendas onto remote servers almost immediately after playing them, so the hand doesn't need to be protected as much. And a hand size being multiplied seems ridiculous... 15 cards in hand?

I'll give it some more thought.. enhanced actions seem like the way to go, but multiplying like that just means that the corp turn will be super long (the corp may have the same number of turns as everyone else, but if his turns take 3 times as long, it's the same as him having 3 times the turns). Maybe just multiply number of credits gained? Like what Asmor was saying, but more extreme? I actually have no problem with the corp gaining two or even three credits for every one he'd normally gain, if he has to face that many more runners. Only testing will tell...
 
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