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Subject: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.5 rss

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Sky Zero
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Please see thread below for the final updated ruleset:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1200976/golden-solo-rule...
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Ted Duby
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Thanks for your hard work putting this together!

I will have to try this!
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Brother Leon
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Thanks a lot

I am looking forward to trying out your variant. I do not have much time to play at the minute.

Would you mind explaining the specific rationale for the custom deck set-up on Unique cards. is it

a) to stop drawing powerful cards too early
b) to stop them being removed from the HQ before you can afford them
c) a bit of both

have you tried it without this shuffle?

Thanks
 
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Dicky P
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Good stuff, and will be trying this (includes all the variants I had thought of, seen and can see working well).

Thanks for tweaking and sharing.

Few questions though re

skyzero wrote:

Bystanders
Each rescued bystander can be discarded from play to prevent ONE new villain card from being drawn at the start of each round. Max 1 discard per round.


When you say "from play" do you mean from the Victory pile, or do you have to make the decision to "prevent" when you first "gain" (by whatever method) the bystander, and before you put it on your victory pile?

Assuming that you can use existing bystanders from your victory pile, when do you make that "prevent" decision? Seems that there might be three options (possibly in order of increasing game difficulty?)

1. Draw 2 villain cards. Decide whether you want to prevent one in exchange for a bystander. [Would the prevented villain be placed back on top of the villain deck, shuffled back into the villain deck, or indeed KO'ed]

2. Draw 1 villain card - decide whether to prevent it. If "prevent" not taken, draw second villain card, have option to prevent that card, but not the first villain card. (Same issues as above with what to do with any prevented card).

3. Decide whether to "prevent" drawing 2 villain cards in advance of drawing. If you do "prevent" only draw one card. [Slightly different question on the "prevented" card as this will still be unseen. so could remain on the pile, or could it be KO'ed (for timing purposes?).

Interested to hear what (if any) of these versions you are playing. I could see all three being valid variations.

Edits: typo's (and this edit comment!)
 
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Sky Zero
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
nssxxx wrote:
Thanks a lot

I am looking forward to trying out your variant. I do not have much time to play at the minute.

Would you mind explaining the specific rationale for the custom deck set-up on Unique cards. is it

a) to stop drawing powerful cards too early
b) to stop them being removed from the HQ before you can afford them
c) a bit of both

have you tried it without this shuffle?

Thanks


It's simply to keep them from coming out before you could even have a shot at affording them. You could just shuffle it up like any normal game and play as well, you just risk seeing one of those in the initial HQ draw and you'll never have a shot at it.
 
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Sky Zero
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Boom04 wrote:
Good stuff, and will be trying this (includes all the variants I had thought of, seen and can see working well).

Thanks for tweaking and sharing.

Few questions though re

skyzero wrote:

Bystanders
Each rescued bystander can be discarded from play to prevent ONE new villain card from being drawn at the start of each round. Max 1 discard per round.


When you say "from play" do you mean from the Victory pile, or do you have to make the decision to "prevent" when you first "gain" (by whatever method) the bystander, and before you put it on your victory pile?

Assuming that you can use existing bystanders from your victory pile, when do you make that "prevent" decision? Seems that there might be three options (possibly in order of increasing game difficulty?)

1. Draw 2 villain cards. Decide whether you want to prevent one in exchange for a bystander. [Would the prevented villain be placed back on top of the villain deck, shuffled back into the villain deck, or indeed KO'ed]

2. Draw 1 villain card - decide whether to prevent it. If "prevent" not taken, draw second villain card, have option to prevent that card, but not the first villain card. (Same issues as above with what to do with any prevented card).

3. Decide whether to "prevent" drawing 2 villain cards in advance of drawing. If you do "prevent" only draw one card. [Slightly different question on the "prevented" card as this will still be unseen. so could remain on the pile, or could it be KO'ed (for timing purposes?).

Interested to hear what (if any) of these versions you are playing. I could see all three being valid variations.

Edits: typo's (and this edit comment!)


When you discard a bystander it's from you're victory pile. In addition, you must discard the bystander BEFORE drawing the second villain card. Hope that clears up any confusion! I updated my rules to make this clear as well.
 
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Justin Davis
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
I may have been playing the final showdown wrong...do you compare your total fight value against the Mastermind's power, or the total recruit and fight value?
 
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Sky Zero
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Ruskicowboy wrote:
I may have been playing the final showdown wrong...do you compare your total fight value against the Mastermind's power, or the total recruit and fight value?


Total recruit and fight value. Added clarification in the rules for this as well!
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Man, I've been making it hard on myself. I've been playing it as just fight value has to exceed the power. That Mastermind kept escaping me!
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Ruskicowboy wrote:
Man, I've been making it hard on myself. I've been playing it as just fight value has to exceed the power. That Mastermind kept escaping me!


You were definitely making it Ninja Gaiden Nintendo hard on yourself It should be a cake walk for you now! (actually it's still pretty darn difficult, especially Loki!).
 
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Dicky P
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
skyzero wrote:
When you discard a bystander it's from you're victory pile. In addition, you must discard the bystander BEFORE drawing the second villain card. Hope that clears up any confusion! I updated my rules to make this clear as well.


Thanks for the clarification. So in simple terms the option is simply that you can prevent a second villain card being drawn, having seen the first villain card. Works for me.
 
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Josh Payne
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please clarify Skrull Invasion rules
Can you please clarify what happens to the Hero Deck Setup phase in the event of the skrull shapeshifter invasion scheme.

Do you use 6 heroes or 5?

If you follow your instructions without modification it seems like the 10 cards you had set aside would end up in the villain deck when you add 12 heroes to the villian deck, plus two other cards, and the rares would have a shot at being in the first five cards drawn to the HQ.

Since this seems silly I've been playing it as follows:

I've been setting aside the rares, then shuffling and pulling out 22 non-rares instead of 10 and setting them aside. Then the rares go in and shuffle with the rest, then 12 of the 22 cards go into the villain deck and 10 back on top of your deck.

Is that how you play it, or do you play with the chance that rares might go into villain deck? If so, for a normal distribution of how many rares go into the villain deck you would need to shuffle all the cards with the rares included and draw 12 for the villain deck, then remove whatever rares are left before following your instructions. If you pull 10 non-rares out to the side, then shuffle in the rares, then pick 12 for the villain deck, you are putting a higher percentage of rares into the villain deck compared to the standard multiplayer game.

NOTE:

For greater clarity, I recommend changing the text of the note at the end of the Hero Deck Gameplay section to read:

Please Note: For the first round, skip the HQ New Recruits step.

The current text is confusing some folks.
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
lindyhopfan wrote:
Can you please clarify what happens to the Hero Deck Setup phase in the event of the skrull shapeshifter invasion scheme.

Do you use 6 heroes or 5?

If you follow your instructions without modification it seems like the 10 cards you had set aside would end up in the villain deck when you add 12 heroes to the villian deck, plus two other cards, and the rares would have a shot at being in the first five cards drawn to the HQ.

Since this seems silly I've been playing it as follows:

I've been setting aside the rares, then shuffling and pulling out 22 non-rares instead of 10 and setting them aside. Then the rares go in and shuffle with the rest, then 12 of the 22 cards go into the villain deck and 10 back on top of your deck.

Is that how you play it, or do you play with the chance that rares might go into villain deck? If so, for a normal distribution of how many rares go into the villain deck you would need to shuffle all the cards with the rares included and draw 12 for the villain deck, then remove whatever rares are left before following your instructions. If you pull 10 non-rares out to the side, then shuffle in the rares, then pick 12 for the villain deck, you are putting a higher percentage of rares into the villain deck compared to the standard multiplayer game.


For that particular scheme, do one big shuffle per the standard 2 player rules and deal out 12 for the villain deck. Then follow the hero deck setup. The unique heroes should definitely be candidates for the villain deck.

To be honest though, after 100+ games I generally don't do the hero deck setup at all anymore. If a unique hero drops out of the gate, then so be it. BUT, as an official rule (and for mathematical possibility), the rule must be in place to not have a unique hero appear until possibly turn 3.
 
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Josh Payne
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Thanks for the reply.

So, I guess that means there is no convenient way to avoid knowing in advance which rares had gotten shuffled into the villain deck. When you pull the left over rares out of the deck to prepare the top 10 cards to be non-rares, you will surely notice which rares are missing. Is that correct, or am I missing some detail of this process?

Also, I'm still curious as to whether you use 6 heroes or 5. Thanks.
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
lindyhopfan wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

So, I guess that means there is no convenient way to avoid knowing in advance which rares had gotten shuffled into the villain deck. When you pull the left over rares out of the deck to prepare the top 10 cards to be non-rares, you will surely notice which rares are missing. Is that correct, or am I missing some detail of this process?

Also, I'm still curious as to whether you use 6 heroes or 5. Thanks.


Always follow the standard 2-player rules for Scheme, Villain and Hero deck setup. In this shapeshifter scheme it says use 6 heroes so follow the standard rules. Another example is the Legacy Virus scheme, it says use 6 wounds per player, so you'd set it up per standard 2 player rules (12 wounds). The real intent of this variant is to 1) Be fun! 2) Be challenging and 3) Not change game setup to allow for seamless integration into all future expansions. In all cases, both now and in future releases always follow the standard 2 player rules when setting up for solo play. Hope this helps!
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
lindyhopfan wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

So, I guess that means there is no convenient way to avoid knowing in advance which rares had gotten shuffled into the villain deck. When you pull the left over rares out of the deck to prepare the top 10 cards to be non-rares, you will surely notice which rares are missing. Is that correct, or am I missing some detail of this process?

Also, I'm still curious as to whether you use 6 heroes or 5. Thanks.


Another simple way to do it without knowing if the unique cards get into the villain deck is this:

1. Follow the hero deck setup rules. Before putting the 10 card stack back on top to build the final hero deck, you can simply deal out another 12 from the larger stack for the villain deck (after shuffling in the unique heroes of course).

2. Alternatively you can ignore my hero deck setup rules and just shuffle the heroes, deal 12 out for the villain deck and start playing (generally how I do it).

Remember, the only reason I have the first 10 cards setup without possibility of a unique hero is to give you a mathematical chance at buying one if it appears on turn 3. If that's not important, just pick some heroes, shuffle and start playing. The variant requires this rule to hold statistical credibility. Outside of that, it serves no purpose.
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Great fun and very thoughtful. Enjoy a tip!
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Played 6 times, record 1-5. The one win was Doc Doom and the skrull shapeshifters, only scored 8 points. The 5 losses were not just losses, I was obliterated (I think I got a TOTAL of 3 mastermind defeats in across ALL 5 losses). By the end of each game I felt like I just got out of a cage match with a very PO'd Wolverine... The games were no fun at all, I just felt like a punching bag.

I get why you set it up like a regular 2 player game then discard one hero per turn, it's like the "other player" recruits one hero each turn (the one that's been in HQ the longest). That works great, and is a fantastic idea. It's just that the "other player" NEVER defeats a villain or mastermind and the villain deck cycles so fast you get clobbered by twists and master strikes and villain ambush and escape effects before you can get your deck built with some workable combos.

Anybody else having any success actually WINNING with this variant? I can see where one villain a turn might be too easy, but 2 seems too much.
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
It is challenging, but I've won most of the games I've played with v1.0 of this variant. Of course, at the time, I thought I had a draw because I was playing the final showdown wrong, but I think I won 5 out of the six games I've played. I have not had a chance to play v2.0, though, but it doesn't look that much different than 1.0
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
stryker99 wrote:
Played 6 times, record 1-5. The one win was Doc Doom and the skrull shapeshifters, only scored 8 points. The 5 losses were not just losses, I was obliterated (I think I got a TOTAL of 3 mastermind defeats in across ALL 5 losses). By the end of each game I felt like I just got out of a cage match with a very PO'd Wolverine... The games were no fun at all, I just felt like a punching bag.

I get why you set it up like a regular 2 player game then discard one hero per turn, it's like the "other player" recruits one hero each turn (the one that's been in HQ the longest). That works great, and is a fantastic idea. It's just that the "other player" NEVER defeats a villain or mastermind and the villain deck cycles so fast you get clobbered by twists and master strikes and villain ambush and escape effects before you can get your deck built with some workable combos.

Anybody else having any success actually WINNING with this variant? I can see where one villain a turn might be too easy, but 2 seems too much.


Easiest way to scale back the solo difficulty:

Don't use the Mastermind Super Strength.

I think you bring up a valid point though. As much as i've played it, I don't want gamers who only play occasionally to get their butts handed to them and be discouraged by the variant. I've gone ahead and made a note for the Mastermind Super Strength in the rules above.

I also recommend giving the variant a try just using the Red Skull and Cosmic Cube scheme until you're comfortable with the game rhythm. I've played many games so I've gotten quite good at optimal combo'ing, it just takes some additional plays. And don't forget the benefit of rescuing bystanders! I'm also used to the punishing encounter decks of LOTR:LCG so this seems like candy land compared to the likes of Dol Guldur. That one still has me huddled in the corner like a scared schoolgirl at the thought of going at it solo again. surprise

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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Ruskicowboy wrote:
It is challenging, but I've won most of the games I've played with v1.0 of this variant. Of course, at the time, I thought I had a draw because I was playing the final showdown wrong, but I think I won 5 out of the six games I've played. I have not had a chance to play v2.0, though, but it doesn't look that much different than 1.0


Other than cleaning up the rules the only real difference is the change from using the 1 player hero deck setup to the standard 2 player hero deck setup. Reason being is two-fold... 1) I wanted to ensure the variant integrated seamlessly across all current and future scheme releases and 2) it does add a slight bump in difficulty, which I found to be a good thing. Your next 6 games using five heroes should result in 2 to 3 wins rather then 5 wins in 6 tries with the previous setup. I'd be curious to hear others results so let me know!
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Ruskicowboy wrote:
Man, I've been making it hard on myself. I've been playing it as just fight value has to exceed the power. That Mastermind kept escaping me!


Isn't the "Final Showdown" only relevant in multiplayer?

 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Thanks for your efforts...but I am 5 wins from 5 plays.

Different schemes, different hero mixes, different villains (via Legendary Randomizer)...but all with Loki as Mastermind!

whistle

 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
Also, do you ko heroes from the HQ when a scheme twist resolves?
 
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Re: The Variant Review's Legendary Solo Variant: Version 2.0
nssxxx wrote:
Also, do you ko heroes from the HQ when a scheme twist resolves?


Nope, play this via standard 2 player rules. This variant was created to integrate schemes and game play into the solo experience seamlessly across all current and future releases.
 
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