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Mage Knight Board Game: The Lost Legion Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: When is Volkare's army revealed? rss

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Tom Steynen
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I can't seem to find this in the rule book. Is it just before combat or does it work like a city? If new units are added to the army after it has been revealed, are the hidden or revealed?

Edit: This question is for the Volkare's Return scenario, where he and his army move around the map.
 
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Jack Spirio
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i don't own the game, but as you can see in this PBF, it works like a city (always reaveal if you are next to it). New units are unreaveled as long as noone is next to Volkare again.
 
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Daniel Corban
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To be honest, I couldn't find this in the rulebook, either. I was planning to re-read the book from cover to cover today. I have been playing that his army is always face up.

I doubt it would matter in the long run if you are playing the solo/coop scenarios, at least for the "Quest" scenario. The "Return" might benefit from more suspense.

If I were playing a full conquest with Volkare replacing a city, then yes, I would play it as a city and not reveal until adjacent.
 
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Trevin Beattie
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Lost Legion rule book, page 11, under "Revealing the Camp":

Quote:
For the purposes of revealing these tokens, they behave the same way as tokens in a city – they are face down, until someone gets adjacent to the camp (regardless of whether it is Day or Night).

 
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Daniel Corban
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The camp is part of the initial setup for Volkare's Quest, and not present at all for Volkare's Return.
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Tom Steynen
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Ah yes, should have mentioned this was in the context of the Volkare's Return scenario.
 
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Chris Linneman
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For the Volkare's Return scenario, I recall reading somewhere that the army is revealed the first time you fight it.
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Pawel Bulacz
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QBert80 wrote:
For the Volkare's Return scenario, I recall reading somewhere that the army is revealed the first time you fight it.


No, the entire army is revealed when any Mage Knight stands on the hex next to Volkare. It doesn't matter if it's day or night.
 
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Simon Kamber
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pabula wrote:
QBert80 wrote:
For the Volkare's Return scenario, I recall reading somewhere that the army is revealed the first time you fight it.


No, the entire army is revealed when any Mage Knight stands on the hex next to Volkare. It doesn't matter if it's day or night.


Wich means that there may be some strategy to getting an early reveal. Knowing the nature of particularly the elite enemies in the final battle from an early point in the game can be valuable.
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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pabula wrote:
QBert80 wrote:
For the Volkare's Return scenario, I recall reading somewhere that the army is revealed the first time you fight it.


No, the entire army is revealed when any Mage Knight stands on the hex next to Volkare. It doesn't matter if it's day or night.


All I see in the rules is this: "Unless stated otherwise by the scenario, the tokens of Volkare's troops are face down." And as far as I can tell, neither of the scenarios mention anything about revealing them if you're next to them. So no, they are not revealed until you have combat with him.

And the Camp rules are only relevant for using Volkare in the place of a City, and not applicable for the Return/Quest scenarios. (Page 14: "Volkare's Camp space has no effect in this scenario.")
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Pawel Bulacz
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Grudunza wrote:
pabula wrote:
QBert80 wrote:
For the Volkare's Return scenario, I recall reading somewhere that the army is revealed the first time you fight it.


No, the entire army is revealed when any Mage Knight stands on the hex next to Volkare. It doesn't matter if it's day or night.


All I see in the rules is this: "Unless stated otherwise by the scenario, the tokens of Volkare's troops are face down." And as far as I can tell, neither of the scenarios mention anything about revealing them if you're next to them. So no, they are not revealed until you have combat with him.

And the Camp rules are only relevant for using Volkare in the place of a City, and not applicable for the Return/Quest scenarios. (Page 14: "Volkare's Camp space has no effect in this scenario.")


And where in rules you can find you reveal it when you fight with Volkare?
 
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David desJardins
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pabula wrote:
And where in rules you can find you reveal it when you fight with Volkare?


I'm not sure if this is a serious question, but it's in step 3 of "Combat with Enemies" in the base rules: Combat starts by drawing and/or revealing all enemies you have to fight.

Why are you asking this? How could you possibly fight the battle without revealing what you're fighting?
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Chris Maloof

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pabula wrote:
And where in rules you can find you reveal it when you fight with Volkare?

Actually, check out Variant Rules, under Adjusting Volkare's Level:

If the level changes, do not forget to adjust Volkare's army. It can be done only before the first real fight with Volkare (i.e. before his troops are revealed for the first time).

That makes it clear that Volkare's troops are intended to be revealed only when you stand and fight him.

Sorry Pawel, it looks like you've been playing it wrong -- better start over and win the hard scenarios again!
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Pawel Bulacz
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DaviddesJ wrote:
pabula wrote:
And where in rules you can find you reveal it when you fight with Volkare?


I'm not sure if this is a serious question, ...


I'm sorry, I shouldn't be sarcastic.
Bad day at work today...
Volkare camp is just a place where Volkare starts.

page 6:
On the map, Volkare is represented by his figure. Depending
on the scenario, the figure may be static (similar to cities), or it may move over the map following certain rules.


page 14:
Unless stated otherwise General Volkare’s section of this
rulebook applies.


page 8 from Volkare section:
Players can agree on a cooperative assault on Volkare the same
way as when attacking cities
.




Toper wrote:
Sorry Pawel, it looks like you've been playing it wrong -- better start over and win the hard scenarios again!


I still didn't win hard scenario yet!
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David desJardins
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The fact that Volkare sometimes doesn't move (just like cities don't move) and that people can engage in a cooperative assault against Volkare (just like they can agree on a cooperative assault against cities) hardly implies that the rules for revealing Volkare's units are the same as the rules for revealing city defenders.

They might be, it's just not in the rules (that I can see).
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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pabula wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
pabula wrote:
And where in rules you can find you reveal it when you fight with Volkare?


I'm not sure if this is a serious question, ...


I'm sorry, I shouldn't be sarcastic.
Bad day at work today...
Volkare camp is just a place where Volkare starts.

page 6:
On the map, Volkare is represented by his figure. Depending
on the scenario, the figure may be static (similar to cities), or it may move over the map following certain rules.


It says "Depending on the scenario..." But in both of the published scenarios (Return and Quest), Volkare is not static. So your emphasis is meaningless pertaining to the question at hand.

Quote:
page 14:
Unless stated otherwise General Volkare’s section of this
rulebook applies.


page 8 from Volkare section:
Players can agree on a cooperative assault on Volkare the same
way as when attacking cities
.


And when players attack him his tokens are revealed. But otherwise, the rules say they are face-down and give no indication that being next to Volkare reveals them.

I do think it would be more consistent for them to be revealed if you're adjacent to Volkare's space during the day, like other enemy tokens, but that would remove some of the uncertainty and fun of the challenge. Volkare has a large army, but apparently they're also stealthy. I'm okay with that.

Presumably, you should be able to use the Scout's ability to look at one of Volkare's tokens if you're within 3 spaces of him. I don't think he should be exempt from that.
 
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Chris Maloof

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I'm just going to quote the part of the rules again where it very clearly implies that Volkare's troops are hidden until you fight him.

Quote:
If the level changes, do not forget to adjust Volkare's army. It can be done only before the first real fight with Volkare (i.e. before his troops are revealed for the first time).

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Peter Schott
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Is it a real fight when Volkare attacks you and you flee?
(I believe yes)

And by the way, if his army is revealed, and later grey indecisive units are added, are they face down or up? (I believe down)
 
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Boris Dvorkin
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pethulhu wrote:
Is it a real fight when Volkare attacks you and you flee?
(I believe yes)

Hmm. I'd say no. Otherwise, what's the point of the word "real?" Him attacking and you fleeing would seem to be the definition of "not a real fight." If that's a real fight, then I don't know what a fake one would be.
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Plei Forejoy
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For something official to this, Grogan's (and Filip's) approach: Not revealed when next to Volkare.
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