Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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So I have a single finnish unit (flipped on step-lossed side), which suffers a 0/5 from a Russian attack. Can I retreat that single unit? Or do I have to suffer step-loss because I cannot fulfill the 5 damage?
 
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Tuukka
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Quote:
8.5.2.1 Retreat/Advance Limits
The maximum number of hexes a unit may Retreat (8.5) or Advance After Combat (8.7) is equal to its MA, minus two. Units
with a MA less than 3 cannot retreat


If your unit has a movement allowance of 6, it can retreat 4 hexes at maximum. So you have to take one step loss (after that you could take the remaining losses as retreats if your unit were not reduced).
 
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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Do I have to take a step-loss when the combat result was not a red number? Isn't it just the attacker who risks that?
 
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Tuukka
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Yes. You cannot retreat five hexes so first you have to take a step loss, after that you could retreat the remaining four (assuming the unit has MA of 6).
 
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Eric Normandeau
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LtUrban wrote:
Yes. You cannot retreat five hexes so first you have to take a step loss, after that you could retreat the remaining four (assuming the unit has MA of 6).


And since you unit is already reduced, it is going to be eliminated.
 
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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I can only find something about the ATTACKER has to take one step loss, before retreating. Not anything about the defender.

I assume this rule, you're talking about, is somewhere in the 8.5.2 "Retreats" section. But I cannot find it. Where does it say this exactly?

Does it have something to do with: "If these conditions cannot be met, any remaining unfulfilled losses must be taken as step reductions."?

If so, then the unit actually has to take 4 step reductions, and then take the fifth as a retreat. But this would of course kill him before he could retreat.
 
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Tuukka
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Quote:
8.5 Losses
Losses can be taken as either step reductions (8.5.1) or Retreats
(8.5.2). The defender always assigns his losses first, followed by
the attacker. The owning player decides how to assign losses to
his units, in any combination of Retreats and step reductions as
he sees fit, with the following restrictions:
a) The attacking force must always take the first loss as a
step reduction.
b) In an Assault, the attacker must take all losses as step
reductions.

If a player chooses a combination of step reductions and Retreats,
the step reductions must be distributed first. When defending in
the Hotel hex with one or more infantry or MG units, the defender
ignores the first loss (see 5.2.5).

Example of allocating losses:A defending stack containing two
Soviet infantry units (MA 5) and an AT gun unit (MA 3) suffer 3
losses as the result of a Combat. They cannot retreat all units 3
hexes in order to satisfy the losses because the AT gun unit has a
retreat limit of one hex (see 8.5.2.1). However, if the players took
the first loss as a step reduction to the AT gun (destroying it), the
remaining losses could be satisfied by retreating all units 2 hexes


That example at the end of the quote might be helpful.
 
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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I've read that 10 times now, but still....

Quote:
If a player chooses a combination of step reductions and Retreats,
the step reductions must be distributed first.

It's not a combination of steploss and retreat. Just a retreat. So this does not apply.


Quote:
Example of allocating losses:A defending stack containing two
Soviet infantry units (MA 5) and an AT gun unit (MA 3) suffer 3
losses as the result of a Combat. They cannot retreat all units 3
hexes in order to satisfy the losses because the AT gun unit has a
retreat limit of one hex (see 8.5.2.1). However, if the players took
the first loss as a step reduction to the AT gun (destroying it), the
remaining losses could be satisfied by retreating all units 2 hexes

The reason that the AT gun gets a step loss, is because it cannot retreat because of moving restrictions. Not because there are too many HITS against the target hex.

It still doesn't answer my question. Everyone else gets it...hmm I feel kinda stupid, but still, here goes again:

Where in the rulebook does it say that: "If you cannot distribute all the hits into a target hex, the unit has to take a step-loss as minimum, before choosing to retreat."
 
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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Ahhh!! I think I get it!

So for each loss/hit that I "convert" to a retreat, EVERY SINGLE UNIT has to take one hex retreat. So if 3 units are in a hex, and they get a 3 HIT against them, and they choose to retreat, everyone has to move 3 hexes away.

And then, when I reach the retreat limit, I have to take Step losses for the rest.

Correct?


PS. Originaly I thought that I could distribute one HIT to one unit, and retreat that as far as I wanted (to maximum retreat), and the distribute the next HIT to another unit, and move that as far as I wanted...etc. etc.
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Tuukka
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Yes, except you distribute step reductions first and then convert the rest to retreats.
 
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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Yes. Thanx
 
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Mark Mokszycki
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Snohomish
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Sounds like you've got it now.

For each loss, you can either take a step reduction (to one unit) or retreat one hex (all units). But since no unit can retreat further than its retreat limit of MA-2, the whole stack may not be able to legitimately retreat the entire distance. So you have to absorb some hits as step reductions first, then retreat for the remainder, such that no unit in the stack is retreating further than his retreat limit.

Let's say you have a full strength infantry (MA 6) and a full strength MG (MA 4) in a defending hex that suffers a 0/4 result. The MG has a retreat limit of 2 hexes (4-2=2) so you can't simply take all 4 losses as retreats and retreat the whole stack 4 hexes. But if you take two losses as step reductions, one to the infantry and one to the MG, you can retreat both units 2 hexes to satisfy the remaing 2 losses. And no one is eliminated (yet).
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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Can you retreat further than the losses? To get further away to safety?
 
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Mark Mokszycki
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Quote:
Can you retreat further than the losses? To get further away to safety?


No, or at least not as part of the retreat procedure. But of course you're welcome to do a "voluntary retreat" during your own Action Phase by simply scooting back your units to where you want them to defend / recover. This is considered normal movement rather than retreat, but it has the effect of an organized retreat. This is normal Finnish behavior during day one of the battle.
 
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Thomas Koba
Faroe Islands
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Ok!
 
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