Mike Stiles
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I read wiki when I'm on the BART, and I happened to be going through some history stuff.

Looking at how awful the UK and France were in the Biafra/Nigeria war, or Algeria (just France), or even the 'arbitration' of the Denmark/Sweden wars, it's really kind of obscene.

Now I have got to figure that the US has similar, but whether its some weird patriotic myopia or what, I can't think of any examples.

So... what am I missing?

(PS: Vietnam (US ver) is nothing like it, lacking that outright self-interest angle. Closest I could come was the Spanish-American war, but that's still not quite up to the 'ugly self-serving meddling' standard that the old Colonial powers seem to love)
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Take your pick: Timeline of United States military operations.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Try the overthrow of that Shah if Iran, or supplying the gas used by Sadam. Of course if you want colonialism try the Marcos regime or the Huk rebellion (which leads us to Noreaga and Batista). Lets also not forget manifest destiny, the right to take others land by force and force them onto reservations.
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Iraq II.
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Mike Stiles
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slatersteven wrote:
Try the overthrow of that Shah if Iran, or supplying the gas used by Sadam. Of course if you want colonialism try the Marcos regime or the Huk rebellion (which leads us to Noreaga and Batista). Lets also not forget manifest destiny, the right to take others land by force and force them onto reservations.


OK Mossadiq is a good one, thank you. Im' not sure how well the other examples you give measure up, but that one is absolutely perfect.

The westward expansion is a bit different, I considered that and rejected it. If anything that's more like early colonialism (but not really) than like the post colonial BS I was thinking about.

Butsudoka wrote:


Military operations aren't the deal though, it's more this venal post-colonial meddling (or just ugly meddling in general, per the 2nd northern war arbitration)

Edit: or 'fashoda syndrome' how do you even get a mindset like that?
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While I'd agree that the US was never a colonial power nor ever has it had a conventional empire - the US has consistently meddled in other nations, often supporting despots or supporting the overthrowing of democratic governments.

I'd look to one of the South American states.
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monkeyhandz wrote:
While I'd agree that the US was never a colonial power nor ever has it had a conventional empire - the US has consistently meddled in other nations, often supporting despots or supporting the overthrowing of democratic governments.
Hawaii?
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Never said the US hasn't partaken in colonialism (all those Pacific territories for instance), the difference seems to be a marked lack of what you might call Post-colonial BS.

Hawaii is funny because it ended up with full rights though as a completely integrated part of the nation (now if only we could do the same for PR)
 
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windsagio wrote:
Military operations aren't the deal though, it's more this venal post-colonial meddling (or just ugly meddling in general, per the 2nd northern war arbitration)


Fair enough. If we should focus on colonialesque meddling to protect US interests, mainly economic, we could take Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Cuba, Honduras, and Bolivia; to this, we could add quite a few countries in Africa and Asia. As for direct colonial ambitions, I'd say the only valid example is the Philippines.
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Butsudoka wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Military operations aren't the deal though, it's more this venal post-colonial meddling (or just ugly meddling in general, per the 2nd northern war arbitration)


Fair enough. If we should focus on colonialesque meddling to protect US interests, mainly economic, we could take Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Cuba, Honduras, and Bolivia; to this, we could add quite a few countries in Africa and Asia. As for direct colonial ambitions, I'd say the only valid example is the Philippines.


Banana republics I'll also grant you, I'll put that up on the list with Iran ;)

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windsagio wrote:
Never said the US hasn't partaken in colonialism (all those Pacific territories for instance), the difference seems to be a marked lack of what you might call Post-colonial BS.

Hawaii is funny because it ended up with full rights though as a completely integrated part of the nation (now if only we could do the same for PR)
One reason may be is that the US has very rarely ever given territory up after it acquired it.
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slatersteven wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Never said the US hasn't partaken in colonialism (all those Pacific territories for instance), the difference seems to be a marked lack of what you might call Post-colonial BS.

Hawaii is funny because it ended up with full rights though as a completely integrated part of the nation (now if only we could do the same for PR)
One reason may be is that the US has very rarely ever given territory up after it acquired it.


Western Europe?
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Shadrach wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Never said the US hasn't partaken in colonialism (all those Pacific territories for instance), the difference seems to be a marked lack of what you might call Post-colonial BS.

Hawaii is funny because it ended up with full rights though as a completely integrated part of the nation (now if only we could do the same for PR)
One reason may be is that the US has very rarely ever given territory up after it acquired it.


Western Europe? ;)
The interference in French internal politics during WW2, backing far right Italian terrorists. Attacking Belgium Police stations (is this actually true?). Coups in Greece. Yep no post colonial interference there.
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slatersteven wrote:
One reason may be is that the US has very rarely ever given territory up after it acquired it.


that is indeed a difference, the American west is more like... well its hard to think of an example, probably Siberia I guess.

Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.

Edit: coldwar stuff is an interesting case too, Iran and Central america were all about corporate interests (like Nigeria, so its a good match), but a lot of the darker US things in Europe were more about OMG COMMIES! hysteria than calculated self-interest.
 
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I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but I guess the best answer is Honduras.

But if you are looking for a cynical policy of putting bodies in ditches, don't forget this entire country is a haunted Indian graveyard.
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Mike Stiles
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The question was answered in depth within the first 3 posts :D

I meant it exactly as I said, I was reading some history and the old colonial powers end up looking insanely bad. I couldn't figure out any examples but figured there would be some, and they were indeed supplied :p
 
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windsagio wrote:
Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.


Now there's a phrase you don't often see.

I know, I stripped the context. But that's the point. Actually I don't agree in context, but that's just dull.
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Dearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.


Now there's a phrase you don't often see.

I know, I stripped the context. But that's the point. Actually I don't agree in context, but that's just dull.


Pff dull? Why?

I think the comparison is pretty interesting. They were both originally semi-willing unions with a larger, more powerful partner that have been mostly successful and democratic but with an extremely vocal minority looking for sovereignty.
 
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Dearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.


Now there's a phrase you don't often see.

I know, I stripped the context. But that's the point. Actually I don't agree in context, but that's just dull.


Both places where there is acceptance of men wearing skirts cool

(even if Scotsmen typically refuse to accept that the kilt is a skirt )
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windsagio wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.


Now there's a phrase you don't often see.

I know, I stripped the context. But that's the point. Actually I don't agree in context, but that's just dull.


Pff dull? Why?


Compared to the idea of comparing Scotland and Hawaii. Incidentally if you've seen Skyfall, there's a bit with some striking views of the Scottish Highlands. Even more in another film I recently saw: A Lonely Place to Die. (IMDB rating 6.3, which I'd probably push a few tenths more for the scenery.)

Quote:
I think the comparison is pretty interesting. They were both originally semi-willing unions with a larger, more powerful partner that have been mostly successful and democratic but with an extremely vocal minority looking for sovereignty.


That's considering now. I was thinking more of how when Scotland joined England, the word was Union, and while Scotland could never be an equal to England, having a much smaller population, it kept many of its own institutions, and Scotland was even over-represented in Parliament. Hawaii, on the other hand, didn't even get to be a state until 1959.

Also now there's going to be a referendum on Scottish independence. (A bad thing in my view - and I don't accept that not being Scottish it's not my business - but regardless, it's going to happen.) As another thread has discussed, secession in US terms was settled by 1865 (and a later Supreme Court judgement that rubber-stamped that).
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Dearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.


Now there's a phrase you don't often see.

I know, I stripped the context. But that's the point. Actually I don't agree in context, but that's just dull.


It's all the Surf and sun.
 
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windsagio wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
windsagio wrote:
Hawaii is a lot like Scotland.


Now there's a phrase you don't often see.

I know, I stripped the context. But that's the point. Actually I don't agree in context, but that's just dull.


Pff dull? Why?

I think the comparison is pretty interesting. They were both originally semi-willing unions with a larger, more powerful partner that have been mostly successful and democratic but with an extremely vocal minority looking for sovereignty.


Except that Hawaii the native ruler was overthrown by a revolt of (largely) white settlers (backed by US marines). It was certainly not semi-willing union on the part of the natives.
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You answered most correctly in your first post: it's the Spanish-American war, probably the first war almost purely driven by media propagandizing. Among other actions, the US pushed their nose into the ongoing Philippine Revolution, offered to "help" the locals oust the Spanish, then immediately turned around and proclaimed themselves sovereign, delaying true independence for another 50 years.
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