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Subject: Aesop's: When is it viable? When's it good? rss

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Steven Tu
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So I had a thought today, and it's one of those deck-starting thoughts:

I don't think I've seen many if any Criminal decks with Aesop's (Feel free to disprove me by linking me to some, thanks)

Why? Then as I tried putting one together, I saw that yeah, Criminals has fewer pawnable things. As it stands now in its incomplete form, I have:
3 Cyberfeeders,
3 Rabbithole,
a single Keymaster,
2 bank jobs (in case they go bad, really. I wouldn't include them if I didn't have Aesops... These days the super-server strat is MUCH more prevalent, it seems to me), and
3 armitages.

That's a total of 12 cards that are pawnable, if it comes down to it.

It seems to me that Criminals are much more event-driven, with expensive programs that aren't usual pawn targets.

So that got me thinking - what's a good number of pawnables before Aesop's is actually worth including? I know "what's pawnable" is largely situational, but let's just say stuff that'll actually give you back a profit.
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Joel Gardner
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This isn't directly answering your question, but I just wanted to point out something that you might not have noticed. If you are running both pawnshop and bank jobs, only take 7 credits off of bank job when its successful. With one credit left on bank job you can still pawn it for 3 credits. The same thing goes for armitage. Don't take the last 2 credits so you can still pawn it.

I have run aesop's pawnshop in my criminal decks in the past and I definitely think that it could be a viable economy option if you build your deck around it.
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Steven Tu
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Syncitia wrote:
This isn't directly answering your question, but I just wanted to point out something that you might not have noticed. If you are running both pawnshop and bank jobs, only take 7 credits off of bank job when its successful. With one credit left on bank job you can still pawn it for 3 credits. The same thing goes for armitage. Don't take the last 2 credits so you can still pawn it.

I have run aesop's pawnshop in my criminal decks in the past and I definitely think that it could be a viable economy option if you build your deck around it.


Thanks, yep I knew about that option one of the reason I wanted to go back to the crim pawnshop idea is so I can cringe less at the thought of running bank job

And yeah I'm trying to build that pawnshop crim deck, but it just seems that crims have more strength in events and expensive stuff than pawnables, which I thought was an interesting balance FFG worked in.

And No, I don't wanna run cortez chip
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Sjoerd Dijkstra
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12 pawnable cards in 45 is still close to one in four. That is a lot of pawnshop food. How much more would you want?
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Steven Tu
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Shurdus wrote:
12 pawnable cards in 45 is still close to one in four. That is a lot of pawnshop food. How much more would you want?


Just did a quick count of my other decks running pawnshops, it ranges from lowest: 14 to highest 20. So 12 is actually lower than (at least my) average.

I agree with codebustng, but if the rest of the time it just chills, you could get more with just easy mark (2 for Aesop, sacrificing 2 creds, saving 1 click, getting 3... It'll only be worth it after the 2nd armitage
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Conny Karlsson
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Generally, i use aesop's as a backup, meaning i pawn anything that has stopped being useful. I also use it to boost some cards, obvious examples being bank job and armitage.

It's great in combination with cards that are useful up until a certain point, like compromised employee. Unless the corp is going trace heavy, you get back the initial investment. Link is usually situational and you're not always sure if you need them, rabbit holes are great for that very reason, they give you a small boost in drawing speed since they remove themselves from your deck, and you can then pawn them for a (very small) net gain, which conveniently also speeds up your deck.

You've already gone through this, just wanted to reiterate it in more detail to anyone who's unsure of how to use aesop properly.

To answer your question, i'd say it depends on your style of play, if you tend to go into slightly longer games, it's definitely worth it with even just a few cards. If you're playing a fast deck and end the game early (either a win or loss) it doesn't really matter how many things that are pawnable, you won't get much out of it.

If you want a number, i'd say around 9 cards to be worth it.
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Theo Seretis
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Also don't forget that Aesop is the only way to stop a Wyldside from getting out of hand(pun not intended).
That and the corp trashing it if your tagged.
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João Almeida
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Tuism wrote:
...what's a good number of pawnables before Aesop's is actually worth including? I know "what's pawnable" is largely situational, but let's just say stuff that'll actually give you back a profit.


Pawnshop is more a matter of game plan and influence than "X amount of pawnable cards". Is it fast enough? Do I want to Pawnshop my stuff? What's the opportunity cost of 2 influence per Pawnshop on my deck?

I think you're looking for the right answer to the wrong question.
 
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Tala Mare
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Compromised Employee
 
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Simon Skov
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As Noise, you can also use Aesop's to pawn off viruses, only to get them back with Deja Vu and play them again, milling more cards from the corp. Having Cyberfeeders will help you pay for installing the viruses again, and Imp even comes into play with counters on it, as do all viruses do if you have Grimoire.
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Kevin D.
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I'm not convinced that a crim deck with Gabe as the ID and Desperado as the console should even worry about running Pawnshop.
 
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Steven Tu
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Thanks all, I've got that aesop's virus deck, I've considered compromised employee, it's just generally I don't like that card all that much because you NEED one early and that means 3 copies and if the corp doesn't use too much ice it's no better than an armitage, and mid/late draws of him just plain suck. But it's definitely Aesop bait, that first one. The later ones don't even give you profit if you play them and sell them.

The main point of this was to try something that I haven't yet, which is a gabe deck with Aesop yes I'll be using desperado too, most likely.
 
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Conny Karlsson
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Tuism wrote:
The main point of this was to try something that I haven't yet, which is a gabe deck with Aesop yes I'll be using desperado too, most likely.


I really don't see the problem with running aesop (a single one) in a criminal deck. They have a bunch of stuff to pawn (compromised employee, bank jobs, armitages). Why would you not strengthen your long term economy with a single card for 2 influence?

I'm not saying it's the be all end all of all cards which will make you a billionare, it's just a nice card to throw in unless you want to add something else.
 
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Steven Tu
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Druni wrote:
Tuism wrote:
The main point of this was to try something that I haven't yet, which is a gabe deck with Aesop yes I'll be using desperado too, most likely.


I really don't see the problem with running aesop (a single one) in a criminal deck. They have a bunch of stuff to pawn (compromised employee, bank jobs, armitages). Why would you not strengthen your long term economy with a single card for 2 influence?

I'm not saying it's the be all end all of all cards which will make you a billionare, it's just a nice card to throw in unless you want to add something else.


Yeah I hear you... But my philosophy is that one-ofs suck (unless tutors present), I prefer at least 2 so I can at least semi-rely on them - they should be part of the whole strat if I'm going to include them - especially at 2 influence.
 
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Jordan Hall
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I used to run a single Aesop in my Core Criminal deck. I think only once out of every 10 or so games the Aesop would show up before I used my Bank Jobs/Armitages/Datasuckers. Eventually I bumped it up to 2x to mitigate this issue and considered 3x until realizing the card was turning into an influence black hole.

Though it would not be surprising to find them printing a resource tutor card at some point (Alas, Networking was not that card, as thematically appropriate as it would be).
 
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Theo Seretis
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Rithrin wrote:
I used to run a single Aesop in my Core Criminal deck. I think only once out of every 10 or so games the Aesop would show up before I used my Bank Jobs/Armitages/Datasuckers. Eventually I bumped it up to 2x to mitigate this issue and considered 3x until realizing the card was turning into an influence black hole.

Though it would not be surprising to find them printing a resource tutor card at some point (Alas, Networking was not that card, as thematically appropriate as it would be).


Why not keep bank job at 1 credit until you get aesop in play?its not like the corp would trash it, or you need to clear room for something else.
 
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Jordan Hall
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hunk wrote:
Why not keep bank job at 1 credit until you get aesop in play?its not like the corp would trash it, or you need to clear room for something else.


Simply? No real benefit in making my (already situational) Bank Jobs less efficient and denying myself 1 credit per just to wait for the chance of a single card showing up out of the 20 to 30 cards remaining in my deck.
 
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MD Chis
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Aesop's is beneficial primarily in this situation:

You want to draw a card and need credits. Play Aesop's and draw. Next turn trash Aesop's. 1 to get credit, 1 to play, 1 to draw, three returned at beginning of next turn. It nets you a card that you did not have. If you have trashable cards in play it becomes significantly better.

That is not to say it is the best, but when you don't have enough accelerators in the deck and can't find more to add, it is a viable option.

It is only 1 click better than flat out drawing a card, but that can be significant.
 
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Captain Frisk
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mdc273 wrote:
Aesop's is beneficial primarily in this situation:

You want to draw a card and need credits. Play Aesop's and draw. Next turn trash Aesop's. 1 to get credit, 1 to play, 1 to draw, three returned at beginning of next turn. It nets you a card that you did not have. If you have trashable cards in play it becomes significantly better.

That is not to say it is the best, but when you don't have enough accelerators in the deck and can't find more to add, it is a viable option.

It is only 1 click better than flat out drawing a card, but that can be significant.


Aesop can't trash himself.
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Ben Finkel
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Rithrin wrote:
I used to run a single Aesop in my Core Criminal deck. I think only once out of every 10 or so games the Aesop would show up before I used my Bank Jobs/Armitages/Datasuckers. Eventually I bumped it up to 2x to mitigate this issue and considered 3x until realizing the card was turning into an influence black hole.

Though it would not be surprising to find them printing a resource tutor card at some point (Alas, Networking was not that card, as thematically appropriate as it would be).


That mostly sounds like an argument against using singletons, at least for engine cards.
 
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Frank Brooks
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It may seem stupid to leave Armitage with 2 and Bank Job with 1 in hopes that you draw an Aesop's somewhere down the line, but if you do come across one, then you are just getting money each turn (like an Adonis Champaign). If the game goes long enough for you to draw Aesop's you wouldn't mind having that 3 creds a turn to power finish.

That said, it is a lot of influence spent for a little bit of cash here and there, if all you sell are those two cards, totally not worth it, but if you have using Mem chips or other cards that become uselss over time (or find yourself wanting to install over an early program with not enough MU), then Aesop's may find it's way into your deck. I don't have a good number for how many trashables you would need, but I just don't think Aesop's should be the "core" of a Criminal deck build. It can help you get some, but it should not be a major source for such an even-heavy faction.
 
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Jordan Hall
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Azeltir wrote:
That mostly sounds like an argument against using singletons, at least for engine cards.


Point was not to shoot down Aesop, but to show that if you're just running Aesop for a couple Bank Jobs, Armitages, and a handful of hardware you may want to pawn, then you will need more than one to make it reliably affect your game plan. And at that point it is, as BoShek put it,

BoShek wrote:
a lot of influence spent for a little bit of cash here and there


Anarchs tend to have lots and lots of things that get used up and then sit around doing nothing, Shapers have lots of things like Personal Touches/ZU.13/Rabbit Holes that they routinely play over the course of a normal game that can be used in conjunction with Aesop's to get that winning late game boost.

Criminals, on the other hand, unless you're pulling in stuff with influence (Which you'll have less of after 2x Aesop), don't have anything that combos especially well with Aesop's.
 
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Steven Tu
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FileAccess wrote:
Tuism wrote:
So that got me thinking - what's a good number of pawnables before Aesop's is actually worth including? I know "what's pawnable" is largely situational, but let's just say stuff that'll actually give you back a profit.


Overall I find that 12 cards is plenty to use with Aesop's to motivate it being played.

Also, keep in mind that there are often reasons to Aesop's something that's more expensive than three.

Example #1: You install an early Crypsis and then later on are able to get your full rig up and running. You can sell Crypsis since it sno longer needed.

Example #2: You installed Femme Fatale and targeted a Tollbooth (or something else). The Corp later trashed that ICE. You have a second Femme in your hand and there's another Tollbooth (or some such) to target. You can Aesop's the first Femme to help you pay for the second Femme.


Yeah, totoally. I've even sold off Battering Rams to stick in Sneakdoor betas So yeah, possibilities are endless with Aesops, when you're going to endgame
 
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