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Mage Knight Board Game: The Lost Legion Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Familiars rss

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D Tse
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Maybe I'm just thick but I dot understand the familiars. So I get the part a out recruiting them. But the abilities I don't get. Can u use any of them or all f them at once or just one? And what's the +1 and stuff after the mana symbol in brackets mean?
 
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James Palmer
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You can only use one.

You have to pay a mana to recuit and a crystal to keep the familiar each turn round. the (+X) in brackets means you get a bonus if you paid that colour of mana/crystal to have/keep the familiar.
 
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Daniel Corban
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Note that the upkeep is not each turn, but each round. Significant difference.
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Jason Lewis
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I'm sorry to hijack this thread, maybe someone can post it for me where it belongs. This site just keeps telling me there's a problem with my post....

subject: round order token

In MK base games I never bothered using the Round Order Token for anyone as we didnt PVP at all anyway, and 99% of the time we didnt co-op cities because we are point whores. However, with the expansion...co-op happens a lot. So I have need of some clarification on Round Order Tokens. Does a player

A. flip it down when beginning his turn then flip it up again after the turn ends

B. flip it down when beginning his turn then flip it up again at the beginning of his next turn

C. flip it down only when co-oping a city and/or when engaging (and attending combat fully) with another player in PVP?

Thanks for the help! The rules books dont seem to explain this part well.
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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Rulebook says you flip it down when you decide that you fully attend a PvP combat (or Volkare assault).
And when it's flipped down you can't be attack again (unless Volkare decides differently)
When it comes to your turn, all you do is just flip your turn order up and that's it.
Next player takes his turn.
But don't ask me which side is up and which is down
 
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James Palmer
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mbuna120 wrote:
I'm sorry to hijack this thread, maybe someone can post it for me where it belongs. This site just keeps telling me there's a problem with my post....

subject: round order token

In MK base games I never bothered using the Round Order Token for anyone as we didnt PVP at all anyway, and 99% of the time we didnt co-op cities because we are point whores. However, with the expansion...co-op happens a lot. So I have need of some clarification on Round Order Tokens. Does a player

A. flip it down when beginning his turn then flip it up again after the turn ends

B. flip it down when beginning his turn then flip it up again at the beginning of his next turn

C. flip it down only when co-oping a city and/or when engaging (and attending combat fully) with another player in PVP?

Thanks for the help! The rules books dont seem to explain this part well.


Flip it when you do your turn. Flip it back when everyone's turn is done.

When we play, we just don't bother flipping it. If we need to do co-op battle, we just know you can only invite players later than you in the turn order, and only if they haven't already done a co-op battle that turn. Generally not too tricky to keep on top of.
 
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Jason Lewis
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ok guys tyvm
 
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Jeff Bridgham
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mbuna120 wrote:
I'm sorry to hijack this thread, maybe someone can post it for me where it belongs. This site just keeps telling me there's a problem with my post....

subject: round order token

In MK base games I never bothered using the Round Order Token for anyone as we didnt PVP at all anyway, and 99% of the time we didnt co-op cities because we are point whores. However, with the expansion...co-op happens a lot. So I have need of some clarification on Round Order Tokens. Does a player

A. flip it down when beginning his turn then flip it up again after the turn ends

B. flip it down when beginning his turn then flip it up again at the beginning of his next turn

C. flip it down only when co-oping a city and/or when engaging (and attending combat fully) with another player in PVP?

Thanks for the help! The rules books dont seem to explain this part well.


Hi!

If you were sending this post to the mods, it was probably being rejected because it doesn't fit the modding parameters. Just post it without sending it to the mods and you will be fine.

If you weren't sending it to the mods, the I don't know what was happenning.
 
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Christian Shelton
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I have a different question regarding familiars, but it fits the post's title. When playing with a friend's copy of the expansion, the familiars came out and I read the rule's section on them. I understood the payment method and worked out the use of the ability. But, I believe I read something like "Their ability cannot be used during interaction or combat." I cannot find the rules on-line to get a direct quote. My impression was that it referred to any of the four "flavors" abilities, but I could be wrong. I read it a few times in context and was still puzzling over it when Volkare took them, so I stopped worrying about it.

Surely this cannot be true (if so, they can only be used during movement I guess and most of them had non-movement related benefits). Did I read this incorrectly or out of context? Was it too late at night and I just dreamed it?
 
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D Tse
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Ok so basically like other units but there's a upkeep per round and depending on what colour you use gives bonus to one of their abilities
 
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Trevor Harkreader

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Mr. Shelton,

The rulebook says, "In addition, they can be recruited on a magic glade; it counts as your action for the turn, but it is not considered to be an interaction - you just play the required influence and recruit them. Reputation bonus or penalty has no impact on this, and effects marked 'if used during interaction' are not triggered."

I believe this is what you are referencing.
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Christian Shelton
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tjhark17 wrote:

The rulebook says, "In addition, they can be recruited on a magic glade; it counts as your action for the turn, but it is not considered to be an interaction - you just play the required influence and recruit them. Reputation bonus or penalty has no impact on this, and effects marked 'if used during interaction' are not triggered."

I believe this is what you are referencing.

Thanks for looking up a direct quote for me!

I definitely remember reading that and that didn't cause any confusion in my mind, but I think it was later (maybe next paragraph?) that it said something could not be used during movement or combat. I thought it was when it was discussing the powers, but now it is seeming more and more like I'm just a delusional gamer
 
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Trevin Beattie
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cshelton wrote:
tjhark17 wrote:

The rulebook says, "In addition, they can be recruited on a magic glade; it counts as your action for the turn, but it is not considered to be an interaction - you just play the required influence and recruit them. Reputation bonus or penalty has no impact on this, and effects marked 'if used during interaction' are not triggered."

I believe this is what you are referencing.

Thanks for looking up a direct quote for me!

I definitely remember reading that and that didn't cause any confusion in my mind, but I think it was later (maybe next paragraph?) that it said something could not be used during movement or combat. I thought it was when it was discussing the powers, but now it is seeming more and more like I'm just a delusional gamer


Perhaps this is the text you were thinking of (p. 5):

Quote:
There are two symbols next to the Familiar's cost. The ! means that you cannot recruit or use them in any other way than interaction. (They usually do not exist in our reality to be called to arms or glory, and can rarely be saved from enemy captivity.)


I can see how this would be confusing. I'm confused myself after re-reading it; I think I'll just promptly forget it again.

I prefer to think of the “!” as meaning “look at the fine print on the card for special restrictions”, which in this case refers to the Familiars' upkeep at the start of the next round.
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Trevor Harkreader

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beyond what trevin said, there is not a mention of combat or a restriction. perhaps you are thinking about how the heal ability cannot be used in combat and the interaction can only be used in combat under certain conditions?
 
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Scott Smart

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And to clarify one last thing. You can only use one of their abilities (the one you paid for with the crystal). The 13-cost Delphana Masters are the ones you can pay and use multiple abilities when using them. They rule if you can get them and power them obviously.
 
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Plei Forejoy
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kysmart wrote:
And to clarify one last thing. You can only use one of their abilities (the one you paid for with the crystal).
That is incorrect. You can use only one of their four abilities; it does not need to be the one powered with a crystal (Ref: Filip).
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Simon Kamber
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Trevin wrote:
Perhaps this is the text you were thinking of (p. 5):

Quote:
There are two symbols next to the Familiar's cost. The ! means that you cannot recruit or use them in any other way than interaction. (They usually do not exist in our reality to be called to arms or glory, and can rarely be saved from enemy captivity.)


I can see how this would be confusing. I'm confused myself after re-reading it; I think I'll just promptly forget it again.

I prefer to think of the “!” as meaning “look at the fine print on the card for special restrictions”, which in this case refers to the Familiars' upkeep at the start of the next round.


It means you cannot recruit them with special effects such as the spell 'Call to Glory', or gaining a unit reward from a Ruins site. You have to pay influence to get them. This does not matter so terribly with familiars, but it DOES make a big difference with the Delphana Masters unit.

It is interesting, though probably just a glitch, that the rulebooks specify that familiars cannot be recruited any other way than interaction, and that recruiting them from a glade is not an interaction
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Scott Smart

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Jebbie wrote:
kysmart wrote:
And to clarify one last thing. You can only use one of their abilities (the one you paid for with the crystal).
That is incorrect. You can use only one of their four abilities; it does not need to be the one powered with a crystal (Ref: Filip).


And yet another reason I hate familiars. Geez, let's put in a unit that requires 3 special rules just to make the game even more complex. I may take these mana leeches out of my game permanently. This game is hard enough to remember everything rules-wise without them.
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Christian Shelton
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Trevin wrote:
Perhaps this is the text you were thinking of (p. 5):

Quote:
There are two symbols next to the Familiar's cost. The ! means that you cannot recruit or use them in any other way than interaction. (They usually do not exist in our reality to be called to arms or glory, and can rarely be saved from enemy captivity.)


I can see how this would be confusing. I'm confused myself after re-reading it; I think I'll just promptly forget it again.

I prefer to think of the “!” as meaning “look at the fine print on the card for special restrictions”, which in this case refers to the Familiars' upkeep at the start of the next round.

As yes, that's it! Thanks.

The "or use" implied for movement or combat to me. I couldn't quite figure out how to parse it, but I mistook interaction to mean influence and figured you couldn't use them in combat or movement.

Now that I see the wording, I'm more confused. What is "interaction?" Perhaps it should be "than listed" instead of "that interaction?" That would make reasonable sense and then I think I understand the unit.
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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"Interaction" is an action in your turn in inhabitant places where you usually use your Influence and Reputation to hire units, buy spells, advanced action cards, artifacts or healing points.
 
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Christian Shelton
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pabula wrote:
"Interaction" is an action in your turn in inhabitant places where you usually use your Influence and Reputation to hire units, buy spells, advanced action cards, artifacts or healing points.

Okay. That was my original interpretation (at the game table a few nights ago).

So that means that the familiar cannot be used in any way except interaction? What good is "block 4" (or "attack 3" or "heal 2") during interaction? I know move is now useful in combat, but is attack now useful outside of combat?

I feel like I'm misparsing the sentence, but I cannot figure out how. I understand that they can only be recruited through this special means. That makes sense. But, I don't understand how the "or use them in any other way except interaction" part of the rule.
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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You are probably talking about this phrase?
Quote:
There are two symbols next to the Familiar’s
cost. The ! means that you cannot
recruit or use them in any other way than
interaction. (They usually do not exist in
our reality to be called to arms or glory, and can rarely be saved
from enemy captivity.)


The term "use" is explained below (blue)
You can use a unit when it's in the unit offer by the Call to Arms spell.
The exclamation symbol tells you that you can't use it with this spell.

You can hire this unit only in interaction.
And when you got it - you can use it freely.
I mean one of its 4 effects, where one of them is stronger (you had to pay mana)
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Simon Kamber
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pabula wrote:

You can hire this unit only in interaction.
And when you got it - you can use it freely.
I mean one of its 4 effects, where one of them is stronger (you had to pay mana)

Only in interaction and in glades, to be precise.
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clemens kremer
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kysmart wrote:
Jebbie wrote:
kysmart wrote:
And to clarify one last thing. You can only use one of their abilities (the one you paid for with the crystal).
That is incorrect. You can use only one of their four abilities; it does not need to be the one powered with a crystal (Ref: Filip).


And yet another reason I hate familiars. Geez, let's put in a unit that requires 3 special rules just to make the game even more complex. I may take these mana leeches out of my game permanently. This game is hard enough to remember everything rules-wise without them.


I am confused what everyone is confused about. Sure, the mana upkeep is new, but units had more than one ability before (say illusionists)... You can choose (any) one and only one when you activate them. Familiars have 4 abilities. One of these 4 will be a bit better, depending on the mana you pay for them. You migth have 'healing' familiars, but you can still use them for move. The ! is the same for familiars and delphane masters and it says so in the rulebook. The ! is explained well for the delphane masters and that section is right in front of the one for the familiars if I remember correctly.

I don't want to sound agitated here, I am just a bit confused...
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Trevin Beattie
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The confusion comes because the phrase “use them” is being interpreted to mean “activate this unit”, as described under “Using Units” in the base rule book.

The text under Delphana Masters does not contain this phrase.
 
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