Pavlos Germidis
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Hello all,

I put in my personal BGG gallery some images containing a point system for Conflict of Heroes. They are at 150dpi, which is a good enough resolution for you to download, print and then use immediately.

Encompassed games are Awakening the Bear, Storms of Steel and the Monster tank countersheet.

I did not follow the path of wanderer1976 in that I did not base the point values solely on the counter values (even though you cannot imagine the complexity of the algorithms wanderer1976 used!).

The values are a mix of various games' costs, modified to take in account the actual cost of the unit, its complexity, its rarity, even its mechanical reliability. Of course, there are bound to be inaccuracies or disagreements, but you can always send me message or type a comment and I'll see what I can do.

Also is included a rarity information for the units: useful when you do not want to search your books or wikipedia to see if a given unit was produced in small batches or not. If you want, you may increase the cost of uncommon units by 10%, rare by 20% etc... For the sake of realism.

I also put in the list two other things:
- units that were used by a country that do not exist yet in that country: for instance, polish AT rifle used for german pzb41, or old tsarist 76.2mm 02/30 (renovated) that were used in thousands by the soviets during the early months of Barbarossa.
- some units that are coming soon or did not make it into the latest extra countersheet are displayed in half-transparent way. They are included only if they were used on the eastern front, of course.

Here they are:

Germans:





Soviets:





Enjoy !

...any feedback is welcome.

NB: the counter values may not be up to date.
NB-2: I will probably upload a .PDF document with the tables once the stats solidify a bit (and some mistakes are corrected!). I will also make the in-service dates more precise (quarters instead of years).
NB-3: Use that table and my Firefight templates to make tons of scenarios !!
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Dominic Dinkel
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This is great! Thank you Pavlos! I hope we get some awesome scenarios from the creative people in our community. I would love to make some, but my Graduate program just started up again for the spring, maybe over the summer I can give it a shot!

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Pavlos Germidis
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thanks Dominic.

We should all put the pressure on Uwe to give more power to the people

You should have two children as I do, one of 3 years and one of 3 months, and see how busy you are. I work on tank counters and my elder son comes to me and says "I want I want I want" showing the tank. Then he climbs on my knees, types "kbngvskdfsydf" and then asks to see a video on youtube. I say no, he kicks me, jumps off crying and runs to his room.

Repeat that 10 times.

Graduate program is a holiday, believe me!

PS: I love your avatar
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Lauri
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I guess these are not for 2nd edition of Awakening the Bear? At least counter values seems different. How "official" this point system table is? Anyhow I'm really happy for your effort to make it easier to design own firefights, thank you!
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Pavlos Germidis
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Hey Holmuri

First, counter values are often inaccurate (as I said in the post) , don't focus on them, keep your eyes on the point values. This is for a simple reason: I made the counters, proposed lots of values, and then Uwe tweaked some. Then we changed the values again after feedback etc...
I will align the values when I will have the time. Some SoS values will be modified in the future as well (planes for instance). These are all small tweaks, save for the guns, and that makes it difficult for me to spot.


"how official" ? Good question.
I think there might have many different point systems for the game. I work for Academy Games, Uwe saw the point table and said he liked it. Now, that does not make any other point system irrelevant or wrong. I went for more historicity, while wanderer76 went for more game balance.

Anyone can come out with a point system. Perhaps I should name this one so it is easier to identify ?

I am going to see if I can come out with a simple scenario generator in the following days...
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Dominic Dinkel
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PavlosG wrote:
thanks Dominic.

We should all put the pressure on Uwe to give more power to the people

You should have two children as I do, one of 3 years and one of 3 months, and see how busy you are. I work on tank counters and my elder son comes to me and says "I want I want I want" showing the tank. Then he climbs on my knees, types "kbngvskdfsydf" and then asks to see a video on youtube. I say no, he kicks me, jumps off crying and runs to his room.

Repeat that 10 times.

Graduate program is a holiday, believe me!

PS: I love your avatar


Haha great story! Well I am not just going to school. I work full time and my wife and I have a 7 month old boy!

P.S. Thanks I love Wallace and Gromit!
 
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uwe eickert
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PavlosG wrote:
thanks Dominic.

We should all put the pressure on Uwe to give more power to the people

You should have two children as I do, one of 3 years and one of 3 months, and see how busy you are. I work on tank counters and my elder son comes to me and says "I want I want I want" showing the tank. Then he climbs on my knees, types "kbngvskdfsydf" and then asks to see a video on youtube. I say no, he kicks me, jumps off crying and runs to his room.

Repeat that 10 times.

Graduate program is a holiday, believe me!

PS: I love your avatar

What!? Power to the people!? Is that a Greek thing?

As for your son wanting the tank... hmmmm... very German....
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Keegan Fink
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Even if the point sheets above do not undergo any updates to counter artwork, will we ever see a revised reference list of the most CURRENT unit types with the latest values? I ask only because some units were updated from SOS and POH with the release of ATB2, and some of the unit counters from SOS are missing from the POH reference guide. It would be handy for those looking to combine army counters across different sets, leaving out those with redundant values. I ask only because an official point-buy system sheet like the one done by Pavlos would be perfect for condensing all of the proper counter artwork into one place (in lieu of an updated reference sheet as part of the rules). I assume the rulebooks for Guadalcanal and First Men In will only refer to unit counters from their respective sets.
 
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Keegan Fink
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@Pavlos: A higher resolution version would be awesome too if you ever decide to showcase the correct counter artwork (reflecting the most current stat values for any counters which were updated beyond their original release; ie updated in expansions or re-releases). 150dpi is good for the point figures, but counter artwork would benefit from 300dpi. Nice work on the setup!
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Pavlos Germidis
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Yep Keegan,

you are right -I'll have to ask Uwe to send me jpg files of all late countersheets. But there are more things on the way, and that might take a short while...

take care, and play well !
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uwe eickert
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We have developed a really incredible campaign creation system, but it will wait until we have shipped the solo expansion and Guadalcanal.
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Dominic Dinkel
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uweeickert wrote:
We have developed a really incredible campaign creation system, but it will wait until we have shipped the solo expansion and Guadalcanal.


That is great! I am so glad that you guys are still going down this road. This is the one thing that can really bring some longevity and variety to the series.
 
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Zac Coste
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First I´d like to say its awesome that you made a point system for the game, its so fun to play skirmish battles with this awesome game!

Critic:
Point system seams to put to much weight on defence and much to little for shooting/moving costs. As units with and shooting activation cost of 4 or more will more often then not only get to fire once, mean while units with a 3 will often get to fire twice, and a unit with a 2 would be able to fire thrice. (I count that the average AP roll for units is about 6-7)
Augment point values for most german units, specially tanks. Soviet tanks dont get do shoot much compared to germans, it feels rather unbalanced.

Completly broken: Is the 12pts - belt fed MG34 team a typo? 22pts would feel both more correct yet, still cheap. Compare to the Soviet Maxim teams at 14 points, which is on all stats weaker the belt fed 34. Not to forget that the german team gets a "free" transport ticket with rifle teams, making them even more deadly.

------
Dont take this critisim to hard, overall its a freaking awesome system You made for Us and We are so happy being able to enjoy it! We just want to evolve it to create an even better game then CoH already is!

------

We have played 500 points battles, on 4 randomly choosen (die roll) maps, moving in our units of-map fighting over 3-5 objective points combined with getting 1pt per destroyed enemy unit. CAPs are the same for both sides, simply roll 2d6 (exploding on 6s) for its value. Both players start with either 2 or 1d6 cards, a new one is drawn each turn. Game lenght 6 turns.

Zac & Pete at KSF Sweden
ps. please excuse our "english" ds.
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Heiko Möller
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hey Zac!

First of all you're right, an official point system would be so awesome..!

About the costs, i agree. I guess these are just preliminary numbers?
I'm using the updated point costs from "Wanderer1976".
You'll find them here: http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/102202/atb-2nd-unit-pointc...

I'd be interested about what you think.

all the best & happy gaming, heiko
 
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Heiko Möller
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hey Tini,

yeah, since i only own AtB 2nd Edition i was to lazy to work in all the older units. I guess once i get my hands on SoS & PoH i'll dive into it.

About the user friendly printing, i'm kinda new to photoshop & printing stuff. What should i change, smaller files?
 
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I had a plan...
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About the printing, I'm just trying to clarify what Tini probably meant.

1) With many home printers, full page color is going to use a lot of ink.
2) When printing out, there may not be a lot of color contrast between the units and the background, so things don't stand out as well.

The file size seems fine to me. I didn't have a problem with downloading it. Thanks for the work.
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Heiko Möller
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happy gaming..

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/103637/atb-2nd-unit-pointc...
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I had a plan...
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heikman wrote:


Looks great. Thanks for doing the extra work.
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Marc Marc
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Hallo Heiko,

vielen Dank. Hast Du auch noch ein Punktesystem von SoS und PoH?

Oder auch von den Monster Einheiten?

Viele Grüße aus Niedersachsen
Marc
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Heiko Möller
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hey Marc

nee aktuell noch nicht, da ich PoH & SoS nicht besitze bin ich zu faul mir die Arbeit zu machen..
Aber sobald ich eins der beiden schieße setz ich mich ran.

lg, heiko
 
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