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Subject: How is this legal/possible? rss

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J
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My Xbox Live subscription expired months ago. The following month they sent me an e-mail notifying me that my credit card on file had expired, then they proceeded to charge their standard monthly rate to my expired credit card. They've done so now for at least three months. I have yet to update my credit card information but they keep charging me.
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Jerbear
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Well, you are dealing with Microsoft.

I had a similar thing happen with AOL 15 years ago. I was in college and realized I didn't need AOL. A year later charges appeared on my parents cards. When I tried to get out of it they wouldn't allow me to cancel because it wasn't my card. They wouldn't allow my dad to cancel because it was my account.

I was away from home. So my family had to call and lie saying they were me and my father so that the account could be closed.
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Matthew M
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XBL subscriptions automatically renew. I've cancelled my automatic renewal in the past, but they don't make it easy. Last time I tried it was only possible through their website, and then only after a maze of menu options.
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J
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So it's legal to charge an expired credit card? Now the billing address isn't even the same. I wouldn't be able to use this credit card MYSELF because of these things.
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Octavian wrote:
XBL subscriptions automatically renew. I've cancelled my automatic renewal in the past, but they don't make it easy. Last time I tried it was only possible through their website, and then only after a maze of menu options.

The last time I tried it's only by phone.
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Jorge Montero
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I just never handed microsoft a credit card: There's always been good deals out there on subscriptions and ms points that handing them a card seemed uneconomical.
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J
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hibikir wrote:
I just never handed microsoft a credit card: There's always been good deals out there on subscriptions and ms points that handing them a card seemed uneconomical.

Well, Jorge, aren't you just so much smarter than everyone else?! cry
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Wally Jones
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Microsoft is hurting for money after the horribleness that was windows 8 and that crap-ass computer they made that not a single person has bought yet.

Guess they figured they can start charging guys like you and make up some of that lost money.
 
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Chad Ellis
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Jarred, shouldn't this question be answered in your other thread?
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Josh
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Nothing is wrong. Corporations are our friends and always more efficient and honest than the government. You just don't appreciate the service they havent been providing you.
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Damian
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jarredscott78 wrote:
So it's legal to charge an expired credit card? Now the billing address isn't even the same. I wouldn't be able to use this credit card MYSELF because of these things.

"Recurring charges" are a special class of charge. A charge classified as recurring can only be stopped by the merchant. Zombie charges can show up on even a supposedly closed (not just expired) account at the discretion to the CC issuer. It's probably in the fine print of your T&C that the CC company can allow any transactions, even ones you would expect to be invalid, at their sole discretion. This is supposedly a "convenience to avoid service interruption", but it's obviously in the best interests of everyone but the customer to continue the practice.
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David desJardins
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jarredscott78 wrote:
My Xbox Live subscription expired months ago. The following month they sent me an e-mail notifying me that my credit card on file had expired, then they proceeded to charge their standard monthly rate to my expired credit card. They've done so now for at least three months. I have yet to update my credit card information but they keep charging me.


Why didn't you contest the charge with your credit card company the first time? Or at least call them to de-authorize future charges?

Maybe you're so wealthy you don't bother to look at your bills?
 
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J
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DaviddesJ wrote:


Maybe you're so wealthy you don't bother to look at your bills?

This.
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Kelsey Rinella
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No, it's cool, you agreed to it. I've been assured by the opponents of big government that companies can never take your money without your consent.
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Steve Bauer
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I had this same situation with some charge on a cancel credit card and was told by my bank that reoccurring cards were special much like damiangerous said, I think it was some kind of magazine subscription. I have also seen many times when I cancel a card, request from various places for a new card number and no charge on the canceled card so the merchant must be notified in someway they card has been canceled.

Canceling your card doesn't have anything to do with your responsibility to pay the bill. You may get the credit card charge reversed but Microsoft would be in the right to then send you a bill for it.
 
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David desJardins
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sbauer9 wrote:
Canceling your card doesn't have anything to do with your responsibility to pay the bill. You may get the credit card charge reversed but Microsoft would be in the right to then send you a bill for it.


I look forward to the news coverage when Microsoft starts suing people in small claims court for Xbox subscriptions that lapsed long ago and they never actually used but that they didn't figure out how to navigate the cancellation process for.

Yeah, that's going to be a real PR triumph.
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Steve Bauer
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DaviddesJ wrote:
sbauer9 wrote:
Canceling your card doesn't have anything to do with your responsibility to pay the bill. You may get the credit card charge reversed but Microsoft would be in the right to then send you a bill for it.


I look forward to the news coverage when Microsoft starts suing people in small claims court for Xbox subscriptions that lapsed long ago and they never actually used but that they didn't figure out how to navigate the cancellation process for.

Yeah, that's going to be a real PR triumph.


Don't be silly they will sell your debt to a collection agency and they will robocall you until you say uncle.
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David desJardins
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sbauer9 wrote:
Don't be silly they will sell your debt to a collection agency and they will robocall you until you say uncle.


They have to stop calling you if you say so. That's the Federal law. If they ignore that then you could end up making a profit on the whole thing!
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Lynette
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DaviddesJ wrote:
sbauer9 wrote:
Don't be silly they will sell your debt to a collection agency and they will robocall you until you say uncle.


They have to stop calling you if you say so. That's the Federal law. If they ignore that then you could end up making a profit on the whole thing!


Yeah that doesn't really work.

I had a health club membership fiasco when I went back to school for my ChemE degree. I joined "Bally" and that club had a 3 year fixed pay us $500 now and never pay monthly dues and you get no lifetime membership or ability to use other clubs deal that I opted for since there isn't a Bally's here where I live full time. So I only needed it for the years I was going to be back in Detroit for school. I already had a club membership here in Tri-Cities at a club that has no national ties.

Anyway when I got back to Tri-Cities in to work the summer months at the lab I discovered that for over 6 months they had been pulling monthly dues from my account. AFTER I paid the $500 up front. So I had already overpaid by another $200 plus.

I canceled those auto payments and called to tell them about their mistake. They turned me into a collection agency. When I got back to Detroit took my contract down there to get them to stop having collection agencies call me and found my membership at the club was blocked. They photo copied my "contract" to send to corporate and get the situation fixed.

It didn't fix things. Every few months for the whole fricken 2.5 remaining years they owed me club access I would have to bring the contract back down because the computer would start to flag me again.

Even worse... for the next 7 years I never stopped getting harassed by collection agencies. Every time I would mail in a copy of my cancelled check and contract... the calls would stop for a few months and then they would "sell" my stuff to another collection agency and it would start all over again. I got to where I didn't even bother to mail in the paperwork anymore I just told the first person from any new agency the short story and then waited them out refusing to answer their calls once I had that agency's number identified.

I talked to a couple of lawyers about it but there really wasn't any "money" to be gained from the battle in their opinion so they wanted money from me to fight it... and I wasn't willing to spend thousands of dollars to stop the phone calls so informed credit agencies about my side (did no real good) and then just let my credit take the hit and decided I just didn't care. I always buy cars with cash anyway and I didn't "need" more credit cards since I had a couple and debit cards were available. So my credit sucked for 7 years.

And yet even as sucky as that kind of round a round bureaucracy is... and as badly as it can screw with your life... it still isn't as bad as dealing with the government ones. Really it isn't. As I was reminded again just yesterday... but I will write up that story in its own post. *sigh*

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Lynette
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tscook wrote:
Meerkat wrote:

I talked to a couple of lawyers about it but there really wasn't any "money" to be gained from the battle in their opinion so they wanted money from me to fight it... and I wasn't willing to spend thousands of dollars to stop the phone calls so informed credit agencies about my side (did no real good) and then just let my credit take the hit and decided I just didn't care. I always buy cars with cash anyway and I didn't "need" more credit cards since I had a couple and debit cards were available. So my credit sucked for 7 years.

And yet even as sucky as that kind of round a round bureaucracy is... and as badly as it can screw with your life... it still isn't as bad as dealing with the government ones. Really it isn't. As I was reminded again just yesterday... but I will write up that story in its own post. *sigh*



I guess you're just lucky that places you applied for work didn't do credit checks?


Ahhh the JOY of going back to school and it being paid for by your current job is that you already have the JOB.

I did inform my management so they could make sure it didn't mess up my Security Clearance though. And it isn't like my credit tanked into the 500's or anything. Any competent financial analysis run on my net worth would have shown I was clearly in the "black" and all my routine bills were paid on time, I had substantial savings in the bank and that I was formally "contesting" this charge.

Interestingly when I did go to put this into official records as soon as I said I had an issue with a "Bally's" financial professionals said... "say no more, they have a reputation for dishonest credit reporting and screwing people over". Which again made me wonder why no lawyers were interesting in doing a class action suit against them since they have a reputation for screwing people over. But I tilt against enough windmills of injustice in my life... this was a battle that I deemed not worth the time and effort needed to really tackle it.

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They call me....
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Meerkat wrote:
They turned me into a collection agency.


Before or after they turned you into a newt?
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Dave G
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Because I have a hispanic last name, I get letters from "collections agencies" all the time. The scam is really kind of brilliant, actually. I wish I'd thought of it. They send a very official-looking letter with a bunch of account numbers on it and "VERY IMPORTANT! RESPOND WITHIN 7 DAYS" at the top in 24 point type in English and Spanish. The letter says something like:

awesome scam letter wrote:
Mr. Gutierrez, our records indicate that you may have an outstanding bill with (insert some well-known company or bank here) in the amount of $7,996.52. Failure to settle such a debt could result in a lower credit score, liens, wage garnishment, or even bankruptcy. Shady-Ass Collections Inc. is willing to accept a one-time payment of $45 to eliminate this file from our records. Please make payment to…


To someone who is desperately in debt, this may seem like any other collections notice. Or say, for a crazy example, if you were someone who didn't speak very good English and were more willing to believe that you'd made some kind of mistake somewhere. If you read it with a more critical eye, though, it's pretty obvious that the letter basically says this:

interpretation of said letter wrote:
Hey, you might owe some money according to some "records" we have. You might not, too. Probably not. That's not the important thing, though. The important thing is that if you pay us $45, we'll stop sending you notifications about that money that you might owe but probably don't. Also, please note that on the off chance you do owe someone some money, we're not really going to do anything about that part, because we're not that someone. Deal?


I love it. I bet some people even send these assholes money. Which is great for the assholes, because then they know they can keep sending you letters. Anyone want to go into business doing this with me?

(Edit to add: No idea why Lynette's story made me think of this. It has nothing to do with anything. Also, Jarred, your cardholder agreement says that if you give anyone your card for recurring charges you're still liable even if the card is canceled or expired. It's not Microsoft that's fucking you.)
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Steve Bauer
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
.. It's not only Microsoft that's fucking you...


Fixed that for you.
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Dave G
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Alaren wrote:
This is why I still put checks in my mailbox like a caveman. I have heard too many stories about auto-drafts turning into overage charges which proceed to steamroll budgets and credit scores alike. The "convenience" of automatic payments is not worth the risk.


I strike a balance--I use my bank's "bill-pay" feature. It's not automatic, I still have to go in and put in an amount and click send, but it keeps me from having to use my checkbook, which still has my address from the place I lived in 2004 (three moves ago) on it.
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Lynette
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MisterCranky wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
They turned me into a collection agency.


Before or after they turned you into a newt?




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